Geo*Boy
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d1h wrote:Moderator wrote:There is no 'perfect' vaccine available anywhere. The problem with the death rate in the US, IMO, is the large number of people refusing to get vaccinated.
Very true. People have gotten vaccinated for different diseases for years. This is the only disease in history and the vaccine for it that have become a political issue.
Not really, polio was discovered in 1916, the first vaccine was in 1955 and there was problems with it, it actually caused polio in some people, it was perfected in 1960 and the last reported case of polio in the US was in 1979.
The shots for COVID-19 are not a vaccine, they are similar to a flu shot.
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BCSnob
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Tell us what your source of “Covid shots are not vaccines” says is the definition of a vaccine.
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BCSnob
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This is the definition from two leading vaccinologists.
A guide to vaccinology: from basic principles to new developments
Nat Rev Immunol 21, 83–100 (2021)
Quote:A vaccine is a biological product that can be used to safely induce an immune response that confers protection against infection and/or disease on subsequent exposure to a pathogen. To achieve this, the vaccine must contain antigens that are either derived from the pathogen or produced synthetically to represent components of the pathogen. The essential component of most vaccines is one or more protein antigens that induce immune responses that provide protection. However, polysaccharide antigens can also induce protective immune responses and are the basis of vaccines that have been developed to prevent several bacterial infections, such as pneumonia and meningitis caused by Streptococcus pneumoniae, since the late 1980s9. Protection conferred by a vaccine is measured in clinical trials that relate immune responses to the vaccine antigen to clinical end points (such as prevention of infection, a reduction in disease severity or a decreased rate of hospitalization). Finding an immune response that correlates with protection can accelerate the development of and access to new vaccines10 (Box 2).
This is from T Jefferson in 2001
A basic glossary of vaccinology
Journal of Epidemiology & Community Health 2001;55:294-295
Quote:Vaccine: A product that produces active immunity, protecting the body from the disease. Vaccines are currently administered through needle or jet injections, by mouth and by aerosol according to set schedules.
Note that even in 2001 there is no mention of 100% prevention of disease.
The Polio vaccines are not 100% effective against disease and the antibody titers decrease following prime and boosting.
Immunogenicity and Effectiveness of Routine Immunization With 1 or 2 Doses of Inactivated Poliovirus Vaccine: Systematic Review and Meta-analysis
The Journal of Infectious Diseases Volume 210, Issue suppl_1, November 2014, Pages S439–S446
Here is a good overview science news article on vaccines from early 2019.
How long do vaccines last? The surprising answers may help protect people longer
Science 18 Apr 2019
This is from the portion of the article on a mumps outbreak.
Quote:"Protection from a vaccine is not all or nothing," Grad says.
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BCSnob
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Antivaxxers claim "Covid shots are not vaccines". Why are they against something that in their mind is not a vaccine?![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/scratchead.gif "scratchead")
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MEXICOWANDERER
las peñas, michoacan, mexico
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Is there activity exploring the furthering of mRNA vaccination against lethal viral infections such as (H5N1, H3N8)?
It seems like further pandemics are a when, not an if...
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BCSnob
Middletown, MD
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Yes, here is a review article
mRNA vaccines for infectious diseases: principles, delivery and clinical translation
Nat Rev Drug Discov 20, 817–838 (2021)
See table 1 in this article for a list of those in clinical trials
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Geo*Boy
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BCSnob wrote:Antivaxxers claim "Covid shots are not vaccines". Why are they against something that in their mind is not a vaccine?
Just because someone doesn’t feel that the COVID-19 shots aren’t a vaccine, because usually a vaccine is one series and done, doesn’t mean that they against or not participating in the shots. I believe in the shots and have had all of the available shots for COVID-19.
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BCSnob
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If a lifetime duration of immunity is required to be considered a vaccine, then there are very few. Here are ones that require boosters after the initial series.
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Haemophilus influenzae type B (Hib)
Measles-mumps-rubella (MMR)
Tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis (Tdap)
Preexposure Rabies (human)
Is it a tetanus shot or vaccine?
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MEXICOWANDERER
las peñas, michoacan, mexico
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It seems to be taking both mRNA vaccine entities 6+ months to respond to the threat of a mutation. What I missed reading about messenger RNA development is if clinical trials can be sped up without sacrificing the hazard of premature errors? I can hope primary analysis could encompass passage through a medical based algorithm that could pre sort vaccine candidates. Lastly, thank you for some incredibly informative links. I have suffered through two diagnosed bouts of Dengue. I wouldn't wish the pain upon my worst enemy. Daytime mosquito attacks caught me off guard.
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BCSnob
Middletown, MD
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This might address some of your questions
FDA Briefing Document
Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee Meeting April 6, 2022
Considerations for COVID-19 Vaccine Booster Doses and Process for COVID-19 Vaccine Strain Selection to Address Current and Emerging Variants
Link
See also Appendix 2 here: FDA
From what I can tell the clinical trails will involve evaluation of safety and efficacy in producing an immune response to the variant(s) in the vaccine. In the past the trials used 20,000 to 30,000 people. My question is where will they find this number of people willing to take a vaccine that do not already have antibodies against at least one variant from a previous infection or vaccination. Or will the clinical trial measure the antibodies already present against multiple variants prior to immunization with the new vaccine and then look for the expected increase in antibodies specific to the variant(s) in the new vaccine?
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