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Wadcutter
IL
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Joined: 05/25/2004
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canuck 1 wrote:
Bert
Your questions have been answered too many times to play this thing again. Please stop at the local highway scales and maybe you will get the magic answer you are looking for.
I'm definitely not going thru it sll again with him. Did that too many times before and still get the same responses from him. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/doh.gif "doh")
Camped in every state
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SolidAxleDurango
OK, USA
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Joined: 01/02/2003
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Wadcutter wrote:I'm definitely not going thru it sll again with him. Did that too many times before and still get the same responses from him.
Maybe he's sofa king we taught it.
TV = 15 Ram 3500 Dually 6.7 / CC-LB / CTD / Aisin / 3.42 / 4wd / EBrake
5er = 12 Keystone Avalanche 330RE
Toys = 08 Kawasaki Brutie Force 650i 4x4 ( x2 "> ) 14 Arctic Cat Wildcat 1000
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BertP
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Joined: 11/07/2003
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Wadcutter wrote:I'm definitely not going thru it sll again with him. Did that too many times before and still get the same responses from him.
Would you be so kind as to show me a single post in which you answered my question? You have posted many times but have never answered the most important questions. You have said over and over:
wadcutter wrote:The max weight laws are generally 20K on a single axle, 34K on a tandum axle and gross is 80K. These are federally mandated limits. I say "generally" because gross depends on the bridge length of your vehicle (distance between the front and rear axle) and the number of axles. The 34K can also vary depending the distance between the tandum axles. It could be more. Weight limits may also be posted less than the max on certain roads
To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever questioned those weights as being law. But even you state:
wadcutter wrote:As an RVer you don't have to worry about exceeding the 20K single axle, 34K tandum axle, and 80K gross. There's no way you are going to be anywhere close to any of those numbers. Think about it. On your 5er you put 16" E range tires on a 5K or 6K rated axle. Your suspension and tires wouldn't handle 20K or 34K loads. And no way are you getting anywhere close to 20K on the steer or drive axle on your pickup. Your Big Country doesn't even come close to approaching 34K on the tandums. Your entire rig is likely to be about 20K total. You could not load your 5er and 2500 with enough toys to get close to exceeding the weight limits.
Again, we all agree. No problem there. But, since this is an RV forum, I suspect that the majority of readers don't give a rat's behind about the weight limits that an OTR driver has to contend with. We are primarily interested in what we are legally required to abide by. So, at the risk of repeating myself, I resubmit:
Bert wrote:But, you didn't address the first part of my post. I understand what the weight limits are, but none of my vehicles will ever see anywhere near 20K lb per axle. So, that restriction simply does not apply to me or to most people on this forum. The problem as I see it is figuring out the weight at which I can be ticketed. That weight will be much higher for my dually than my Venture, but neither will even approach the normal weight limits.
So, how do we define "overweight? Is it only when you exceed the 20K/axle, etc or is it the weight at which you can be ticketed? It has already been established that there are DOT weight limits for our tires so if I exceed the weight limit of my tires is my truck "overweight"? I know I can be ticketed, but I am not over the other weights. My truck doesn't have a registered weight, so I can't be over on that.
I apologize but I have been unable to reduce that question to a simpler form - that is as simple as it gets. It is also a question that - in spite of your many protestations to the contrary - you have never answered. That is all I have been trying to find out in a number of weight related threads.
Bert
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BertP
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Joined: 11/07/2003
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JIMLIN wrote:Bert
those 20000 lb axle weights are "max" weights and as you say we don't come into that class truck. We come in the 10000 GVWR and higher weights that FMCSA title 49 mentions. Look at part 571.3 for definitions of terms for GVWR/GAWR/GCWR [no numbers].
Yes, i know, which is why I can never understand why they are bantered about so much here. They are pretty much irrelevant to most of us.
JIMLIN wrote:Now we go to the state we are registered in for where those weight numbers come from and how those numbers are inforced in the state the vehicle is registered in.
My state for example, when a weight check is required for a 3500 DRW, first looks at the tires capacities. Those officers know what approx weights a 3500 DRW tires fit in. If someone has installed semi truck 22.5 wheels/tires or 4500 19.5 tires/wheels with those higher capacities on that 3500DRW that throws a red flag.
That matches pretty well what I have been told by the DOT folks here as well. Tires seem to be the paramount concern when it comes to weight.
JIMLIN wrote:The officer then goes to the truck manufactors axle capacities from the trucks door tag and will use the smaller weight numbers between the two. Let me repeat this again, "this is how my state" enforces commercial or non commercial weights on 10000 GVWR and higher trucks. As my state dot officer says "the same weight regs", pertaining to the trucks door tag/plates, are used for that 3500 DRW when used for DOT legal commercial purposes or non commercial purposes or just hauling a RV or using the truck for farm use or going to Lowes for a load on concrete.
I would talk with your province motor vehicle authorities [2 or more] on how they determine and enforce axle weights/tires capacities/and truck GVWR for your trucks class.
JIM
I have spokent to a number of people here in Alberta and I have done a fair amount of internet research for all States and Provinces. The problem I find is that there is no shortage of people who will give you their opinion, but I have never been able to find any statutes that specify what the weight limits are for our rigs. Since my truck is registered as a private vehicle, it has no registered weight. That would seem to imply that it is not possible for my truck to be overweight. After all, if there is no registered weight, how can it be over it? But, as you mentioned, in your State, the trooper will check your door tags if s/he suspects that your rig is too heavy. BUT, in order for that officer to give you a ticket, you must first violate a State statute. If there is no statute specifying that it is unlawful to exceed the limit listed on the door tag, you can be at ten times that limit and you cannot be ticketed for exceeding that limit. You may be ticketed for violating some other statute, but not for being overweight. Have you been able to locate the statute in your State that allows the trooper you mentioned to ticket someone for exceeding the tagged limit?
Bert
* This post was
edited 11/25/07 06:34pm by BertP *
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Gunpilot77
Killeen, Tx
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Joined: 10/06/2000
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BertP wrote:Since my truck is registered as a private vehicle, it has no registered weight. That would seem to imply that it is not possible for my truck to be overweight.
Bert
By Jove, I think he finally got it, he just hasn't realized it!
Fifth wheel pulled with a pick-up
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BertP
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Joined: 11/07/2003
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Gunpilot77 wrote:By Jove, I think he finally got it, he just hasn't realized it!
All I ask is that you show me the legislation to back up that claim. I don't agree or disagree with your statement, I'm just looking for verification. In other words, is it legal in your State/Province to load a 3500 series vehicle with DRW to, say, 20K lb and drive down a public road - assuming that there are no special weight restrictions for that road and there is no registered weight for the truck? If no because of tire limitations, is it legal for you to change the tires on that same vehicle to accommodate the load and then drive it down that same public road?
Bert
* This post was
edited 11/25/07 07:45pm by BertP *
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Gunpilot77
Killeen, Tx
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JIMNLIN wrote: MY state will enfore door tag weights and is cracking down on non commercial users such as 3500 trucks pulling heavy construction equipment. And yes just as I mentioned before the OHP shift captain said they use the same GVWR/GAWR tags as dot. I've been through many weigh station checks when hauling commercial/dot and those dot officers certaily checked manufactors door tag weights. Your state may not check door tag numbers but the different states that I was compliant in sure did.
I just have to ask, just what draws all this attention to you at the scales? I've criss-crossed OK with RV trailers attached, both commercially and non-commercially many times. When pulling my own 5er I've never stopped at the scales, there is no reason to. Actual weight was around 20k. While commercial I've driven across every set of scales that were open. Here's the part I don't understand. I have been given the green light every time in OK, no matter what size trailer I have hooked up. My take on it is that every axle has been under 20k and the guy inside has no desire to do a log book and safety equipment check. So where is this big crackdown? In the state scales that I have had to park in, NOT ONE officer has looked at my door tag. Log book, med card, fire ext, registration, drivers license, lights, tire tread depth, etc, etc. You must draw a lot of attention by looking guilty of something.![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
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Gunpilot77
Killeen, Tx
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BertP wrote:
All I ask is that you show me the legislation to back up that claim.
Bert
Sigh, I guess not.![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/rolleyes.gif "rolleyes")
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Wadcutter
IL
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Joined: 05/25/2004
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Gunpilot77 wrote:BertP wrote:
All I ask is that you show me the legislation to back up that claim.
Bert
Sigh, I guess not.
Nope, he doesn't. I've clearly answered all his questions before but he just doesn't understand the answer. Don't know if it's because he's unable to understand or just trying to be intentionally obtuse. Either way, I quit responding to him. Everyone else seems to understand. There's always the one in class who is unable to grasp the concepts.
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JIMNLIN
Oklahoma
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Joined: 09/14/2003
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bert
as I have said many many times this is how my state interpets/enforces FMCSA weight rules according to my state DOT officers and weight certified OHP troopers. No I did not ask them for a web site for verification. Do not assume your interpetation of your state laws is the same as how my state enforces/interpets laws pertaining GVWR/GAWR. I've been through weigh stations in approx 12 states when I pulled commercially (non RVs} so I know what a dot inspector looks at. How many have you been through ?? What state were you operating out of ?? You or any other poster can give your state/my state a call for their interpetations/enforcement. No they won't give you a web specifically for your truck. All you get is how they interpet/enforce and that will determine the operators requirements for compliance.
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just a comment for wadcutter. So far all we've seen from your door tag assesment, is your opinion. Show us a document that says the door tag GVWR/GAWR isn't used from our 2500/3500 class truck for combined licensing requirements per FMCSA or my state. So far all you've shown us is the max axle ratings. Are you even aware FMCSA has regs for under under 26000 GVWR class or even the over 10k class ?? Simply throwing up a FMCSA.com or states law.com won't get it.
Anyone care to even look at FMCSA rule books terms of definitions of RVWR/GCWR/GAWR part 571.3 or even how your state interpets those definitions. I have. And it didn't come from a website.
Like the odot officer/OHP trooper says, the regs are there now its up to the operator to find out how the state/states you operate in interpets/uses those door tags.
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Gunpilot
what draws attention to me?? Never had any weigh station problems as I kept everything in order.
Where is this big crack down ?? non commercial is not a weigh station and I used his {officer} example of heavy construction equipment and yes my state is jumping pretty hard on 3500 DRW trucks pulling backhoe as a example.
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sure lots of opinions here and so far no one has a web/the smoking gun document to back up any claim. If anyone is really interested in how their state uses door tag info on the trucks we tow/haul with just give your state a call. I have and I'm satified with my experience of actually hauling dot legal and the info those officers gave me.
If anyone is interested in how door tag info is used in liecensing/enforcement and weight checks from current dot operators the uship.com web will give you the how its legally done.
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers
'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides
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