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JIMNLIN
Oklahoma
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Joined: 09/14/2003
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the OP is about door tag RAWR. Door tag GVWR has been thrown into the question. Just talked to a odot lieutenant today and just as the OHP shift captain I mentioned earlier said we use those door plate [he called them] GVWR/GAWR numbers for commercial and non commercial enforcement for under 26000 lbs. They both confirmed the same reg enforcement for dot and non commercial users. The both did say they don't bother RVs BUT if they were forced to stop a Rv for serious overload condition/severe weaving the same regs will apply. Odot liutenant did say tires are the number one priority in weight checks in under 26000 class our 2500/3500 trucks fit in. Again, this is how my state interpets and enfore per the officers I mentioned. Other states can be different.
Don't take my word but check out those commercial haulers webs I mentioned and read the different forum subjects on weights and enforcement. One thing you will notice one size don't fit all in how each state dot chooses to interpet FMCSA regs.
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BertP
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Joined: 11/07/2003
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Wadcutter wrote:Once again you are confusing 2 separate issues.
I'm done discussing it with you. You have a mental block on separation of the 2 laws - overweights and registration. 2 separate sections and one not related to the other. It's impossible for me to explain it any clearer than I have. However, your mind is made up and you can't seem to separate the 2 issues. That's a clear indication of someone not fully understanding the topic.
What about States and Provinces where there is no registerd weight for a vehicle? Here in Alberta, unless you register your truck as commercial, you cannot register any weight. So, my Chevy 3500 dually has no weight registered. Does that mean that as long as I don't exceed the 20K lb per axle or any bridge or road weight limitation that I cannot be fined for having an overweight vehicle? If yes, why is it that the DOT folks have told me that I will be ticketed if I exceed the load capacity of my tires? If that is not called "overweight", what is it called?
Bert
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pupeperson
Silver Springs, NV
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Joined: 02/01/2007
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BertP asked: "....why is it that the DOT folks have told me that I will be ticketed if I exceed the load capacity of my tires?"
DOT ratings are separate and distinct from any other ratings. Because the rating on your tires is a Federal DOT rating, it carries the force of law and governmental entities can fine you for exceeding it. The government assumes, prima facie, that loads in excess of DOT rated capacity are dangerous to the public at large and are therefore illegal. End of story. I believe that is because the government is actually certifying that rating to the public and will go after companies whose products fail to meet the specific standards the government has set for them.
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Wadcutter
IL
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Joined: 05/25/2004
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BertP wrote:What about States and Provinces where there is no registerd weight for a vehicle? Here in Alberta, unless you register your truck as commercial, you cannot register any weight. So, my Chevy 3500 dually has no weight registered. Does that mean that as long as I don't exceed the 20K lb per axle or any bridge or road weight limitation that I cannot be fined for having an overweight vehicle?
We've been thru this before Bert on another thread, and also in this one.
You are talking 2 separate laws and somehow are thinking one is related to the other. Registration weights have nothing at all to do with axle/gross weights.
Registration weight limits is a tax. It's the amount a person pays to haul a certain amount of weight. If your state/province doesn't register their small vehicles by weight then it's not an issue for you.
Axle/gross weights apply doesn't matter what your registration says.
Camped in every state
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ChucknKay
St Marys County MD
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This site provides state-by-state info on most of what is being discussed here. You may have to dig a little, but it's mostly all in this doc.
http://www.aitaonline.com/Info/Road/Low%20Clearances.html
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BertP
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Joined: 11/07/2003
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Wadcutter wrote:We've been thru this before Bert on another thread, and also in this one.
You are talking 2 separate laws and somehow are thinking one is related to the other. Registration weights have nothing at all to do with axle/gross weights.
Registration weight limits is a tax. It's the amount a person pays to haul a certain amount of weight. If your state/province doesn't register their small vehicles by weight then it's not an issue for you.
So, what you are saying is that since Alberta doesn't register the weight for a private vehicle, I can load my truck or any other privately registered vehicle to 39,999 lb (19,999.5 lb per axle) and as long as I have tires to support that load, I will be legal? That doesn't make sence to me especially if I did that with my Chevy Venture or my wife's Malibu but I have not been able to find any law here or anywhere else that either supports or refutes that.
Wadcutter wrote:Axle/gross weights apply doesn't matter what your registration says.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that the 20K/axle, 34K/tandem and 80K gross apply regardless of what I register my vehicle for? That would make sence to me.
Bert
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Wadcutter
IL
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Joined: 05/25/2004
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BertP wrote:
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that the 20K/axle, 34K/tandem and 80K gross apply regardless of what I register my vehicle for? That would make sence to me.
Those are generally the legal axle/gross weight limits. Again, your registered weight limits have nothing to do with axle/gross limits. Registered weight limits is a tax an owner pays to haul "X" amount of weight. Axle/gross weight limits are the max you can carry on an axle or gross. Don't confuse the 2. Completely separate issues.
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BertP
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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But, you didn't address the first part of my post. I understand what the weight limits are, but none of my vehicles will ever see anywhere near 20K lb per axle. So, that restriction simply does not apply to me or to most people on this forum. The problem as I see it is figuring out the weight at which I can be ticketed. That weight will be much higher for my dually than my Venture, but neither will even approach the normal weight limits.
So, how do we define "overweight? Is it only when you exceed the 20K/axle, etc or is it the weight at which you can be ticketed? It has already been established that there are DOT weight limits for our tires so if I exceed the weight limit of my tires is my truck "overweight"? I know I can be ticketed, but I am not over the other weights. My truck doesn't have a registered weight, so I can't be over on that.
Bert
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JIMNLIN
Oklahoma
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Bert
those 20000 lb axle weights are "max" weights and as you say we don't come into that class truck. We come in the 10000 GVWR and higher weights that FMCSA title 49 mentions. Look at part 571.3 for definitions of terms for GVWR/GAWR/GCWR [no numbers]. Now we go to the state we are registered in for where those weight numbers come from and how those numbers are inforced in the state the vehicle is registered in.
My state for example, when a weight check is required for a 3500 DRW, first looks at the tires capacities. Those officers know what approx weights a 3500 DRW tires fit in. If someone has installed semi truck 22.5 wheels/tires or 4500 19.5 tires/wheels with those higher capacities on that 3500DRW that throws a red flag. The officer then goes to the truck manufactors axle capacities from the trucks door tag and will use the smaller weight numbers between the two. Let me repeat this again, "this is how my state" enforces commercial or non commercial weights on 10000 GVWR and higher trucks. As my state dot officer says "the same weight regs", pertaining to the trucks door tag/plates, are used for that 3500 DRW when used for DOT legal commercial purposes or non commercial purposes or just hauling a RV or using the truck for farm use or going to Lowes for a load on concrete.
I would talk with your province motor vehicle authorities [2 or more] on how they determine and enforce axle weights/tires capacities/and truck GVWR for your trucks class.
JIM
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canuck 1
alberta
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Joined: 03/04/2005
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BertP wrote:But, you didn't address the first part of my post. I understand what the weight limits are, but none of my vehicles will ever see anywhere near 20K lb per axle. So, that restriction simply does not apply to me or to most people on this forum. The problem as I see it is figuring out the weight at which I can be ticketed. That weight will be much higher for my dually than my Venture, but neither will even approach the normal weight limits.
So, how do we define "overweight? Is it only when you exceed the 20K/axle, etc or is it the weight at which you can be ticketed? It has already been established that there are DOT weight limits for our tires so if I exceed the weight limit of my tires is my truck "overweight"? I know I can be ticketed, but I am not over the other weights. My truck doesn't have a registered weight, so I can't be over on that.
Bert
Bert
Your questions have been answered too many times to play this thing again. Please stop at the local highway scales and maybe you will get the magic answer you are looking for.
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