Campinfan
Washtenaw County, Michigan
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In Michigan, we do not take enforcement against non commercial vehicles. Its been a couple of years since I have weighed out a vehicle but we enforce the vehicles that have a weight sticker on the plate. I think they start at 24,000 lbs GVWR. We do not weigh out RV's.
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Hannibal
Tampa Bay Area
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Just a wild guess but I'm thinking if a vehicle is so over loaded that it's unsafe to drive, it's "unsafe" characteristics will be evident in the driver's inability to maintain control of his vehicle such as being able to stay in his lane or stop in a reasonable distance or even accelerate up to speed so as not to impede the normal flow of traffic. In that case I would assume a police officer would notice the unsafe condition and possibly ticket the driver for careless driving, reckless driving, failure to maintain control of his vehicle, failure to stop at a stop signal, maybe even improper equipment as a result of being severly over loaded to the point of impaired driving. Hopefully none of us will over load our vehicles to the point of being "obviously" grossly over loaded. If simply being over the manufacturer's GVWR were illegal, police depts could fill their coffers with fines collected from just about anyone loaded for vacation in their cars, minivans and SUV's. Even the minivan loaded with kids for the soccer game would likely exceed the GVWR. Heck, they could sit out in front of Home Depot and rake in more fines than DUI check points outside the bars.
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UsualSuspect
Saugus, CA
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Since I needed to get a VIN Verification done, I asked one of the CHP Weigh Station Officer's while I was there. He said they don't usually target RV's unless they are involved in an accident with major injuries, fatalities, or they see one and it looks unsafe. I showed him this post - he said very careful - it only applies on Interstate Highways, not State Highways, nor County/City roadways. same for towing triples - in California it is only allowed on Interstate Highways, not on State/County/City highways or roadways.
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volwing1
Dickson TN
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Money and morality. Drive a rig that is overloaded according to the manufacturer...have an accident and discover what your insurance adjuster will do. It is his job to determine if your policy was abided with before he approves any payout. They are trained to look at any means of not paying...including your using your vehicle in a manner specifically forbidden by the manufacturer. We're not talking about speeding but about rigging or using your vehicle to perform an illegal task. I'm not worried about a citation from some officer. But I would be very worried about eternal lawsuits with nobody in my corner.
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rshidler
Bellevue, NE
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volwing1 wrote:Money and morality. Drive a rig that is overloaded according to the manufacturer...have an accident and discover what your insurance adjuster will do. It is his job to determine if your policy was abided with before he approves any payout. They are trained to look at any means of not paying...including your using your vehicle in a manner specifically forbidden by the manufacturer. We're not talking about speeding but about rigging or using your vehicle to perform an illegal task. I'm not worried about a citation from some officer. But I would be very worried about eternal lawsuits with nobody in my corner.
Hi volwing1,
Since you're a new member, maybe you can shed some light on this subject. The question of whether an insurance policy would pay in the event of a pickup towing a camper that exceeds the manufacturer's specs has been asked about a gazillion times. So far, nobody has been able to produce any evidence saying they would not pay. Since you speak with an air of authority, maybe you can finally provide some concrete evidence.
Another question that often follows: If an insurance company will pay following an accident caused by a drunk driver (which is an activity that is, without question, illegal), why would they not pay following an accident that was caused by an activity that is not illegal?
You also mention the "mythical" lawsuits to follow. Do you have some personal experiences that you can share? Many have come before you with the "friend of a friend" stories, but I have yet to hear anybody say first hand that they lost all their earthly possessions to lawsuits.
Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.
* This post was
edited 11/14/07 05:29pm by rshidler *
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jmramiller
Dallas
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volwing1 wrote:Money and morality. Drive a rig that is overloaded according to the manufacturer...have an accident and discover what your insurance adjuster will do. It is his job to determine if your policy was abided with before he approves any payout. They are trained to look at any means of not paying...including your using your vehicle in a manner specifically forbidden by the manufacturer. We're not talking about speeding but about rigging or using your vehicle to perform an illegal task. I'm not worried about a citation from some officer. But I would be very worried about eternal lawsuits with nobody in my corner.
I am going to leave the insurance thing alone because I don't even think that comes into play in the way you are suggesting unless exceeding the manufacturers ratings is in fact a violation of law which you also suggest.
So, how do you propose to support your claim that exceeding the ratings on the door sticker is in fact a violation of law?
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Hannibal
Tampa Bay Area
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JIMNLIN
Oklahoma
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my insurance company says as long as my truck is registered legally [non commercial] in my state there will be no problems. It sure is easy to make a phone call to your agent/insurance company for their input.
Same for when I towed commercially. Commercial insurance for hauling/towing DOT legal can run 6000+ dollars a year for loads like the Dodge towing 30000 lb combined thread. As long as he is legally registered he's covered.
JIM
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grey`eagle
N31° 55’ W95° 30’ ----- ESE of One Tree, TX
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Wadcutter & captain037:
First my I pen, I’m not an attorney, neither do I play one on TV, nor did I spend the night in Holiday Inn Express. AND, I sure don’t practice jailhouse law; I leave that for the college kids.
However, I do have numerous semester hours of legal training and was engaged in the CFR’s/ FAR’s in a professional regulatory compliance capacity for almost 40 years. One thing that I learned as a very young cub pup was that “simply because you’re in compliance with one letter of the law doesn’t mean you’re in compliance with all letters of law”.
Both of you gentlemen have done an excellent job of explaining the weight laws, which is basically dictated by NHSTA, with regulatory compliance coming via the CFR’s, as I understand. As both of you have eloquently pointed out, there is no way, by reasonable standards, that any RV will ever exceed those limits as you’ve quoted above. These limits appear to geared primarily toward commercial activities or operations as such.
Notwithstanding, and IMHO, I don’t think you covered page two when it comes to the other part or regulatory compliance. “The catch all” paragraph that causes more heartburn that any one of the other CFR’s is plainly stated “ careless and reckless operation”
It’s my understanding that the same standard holds in a court of law, whether it be that all infamous VW bug towing a 10K fifth wheel or a 100K tractor trailer pulling triples loaded with Class A explosives flying down the interstate at 80MPH in blowing heavy rain. Which both appear to be in compliance with some or various state laws.
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captain037
Montgomery, AL
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grey'eagle,
You are exactly correct. Thank you for pointing that out. Over weight could be deemed as "careless and reckless operation." My thoughts on that part of the equation are that an officer other than one that normally enforces weights would have to be digging for a charge to even consider that and weight enforcement officers normally do not fool with RV's in this state unless they too are digging for a charge as waddcutter said about drugs and smuggling.
Anything IS possible. I didn't come from the same experience as waddcutter, he has waaaaaay more experience in his specialty than I. My experience is local law enforcement. As a staff officer, I would have put a stop quickly to officers under my command checking the weights of RV's unless they were in the traffic division and the drivers were operating carelessly and recklessly OR we were looking for drugs. It would have to be gross. It's just a waste of time. We have too many people robbing and killing each other or poisoning our youth with drugs to worry about spending the time to check the weight of a RV. That's my opinion.
Anything is possible but in the real world it just doesn't happen here. Again, that's not to say that a young officer full of himself might not do it but, his supervisor will see that immediately and put a stop to it. It's not what we do.
After I posted this I did have a thought about weight. If rigs keep getting bigger it won't be long until they DO weigh too much.
* This post was
edited 11/16/07 01:59pm by captain037 *
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