BertP
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Quote:So you are saying a 2000 7.3 PSD Excursion will be working harder than a 5.4 V8 Excursion to tow 20,000 lb GCWR . I wonder why Ford doesn't think so.
Please don't put words in my mouth, Joe. There are many other factors at work here in addition to the HP. I merely said that a 255 HP would not be working as hard as a 235 HP engine at some HP level. You have yet to define what you mean by "ease", so this is not a useful discussion.
Bert
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millerliteliker
Longview, TX
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Joined: 12/15/2003
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Quote:
4. Quiet as the are all three you still have to turn them off in drive throughs sometimes to be heard. Can be annoying to others in campgrounds or your neibors if you have them when you are getting up real early to go fishing or hunting. Does not bug me at all.
This is a marketing thing. Ford, Chevy, and Dodge on purpose don't make their diesel engines as quiet as they could because it gives the owners the "big rig" sound that they love. Notice how the Dodge and the Ford SuperDuty look like scaled down Class 8 trucks?
I've got a few new International Class 6 trucks with DT466 Diesel engines in them. Standing right next to them you cannot hardly hear them run. Compare that to a new SuperDuty F550 with that I bought for my business and it sounds like a freight train pulled up to my office when it pulls up.
I also get a kick out of how diesel pickup owners leave their engines idling all the time. With the new engines and new cleaner fuel this is a by-gone practice (or should be). But again, these pickup owners think they are "truck drivers" and that is how you are supposed to treat a diesel engine. Not a single heavy or medium duty OEM recommends this practice anymore.
2009 Chevrolet 3500HD DA LTZ DRW 4X4 Crew Cab
2005 GMC 2500HD DA SLT Crew Cab
2004 Cedar Creek 32BHBS
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PSDExcursion
Millstone NJ
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Quote:Quote:So you are saying a 2000 7.3 PSD Excursion will be working harder than a 5.4 V8 Excursion to tow 20,000 lb GCWR . I wonder why Ford doesn't think so.
Please don't put words in my mouth, Joe. There are many other factors at work here in addition to the HP. I merely said that a 255 HP would not be working as hard as a 235 HP engine at some HP level. You have yet to define what you mean by "ease", so this is not a useful discussion.
Bert
Ok Bert,tell us why you paid a premium price for your Duramax diesel since you could have more HP for $5000 less with a gasser ?
2002 Chevy Express 3500 8.1 155" WB passenger van
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sack1
Kent, WA
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I read a while back a discussion on just how long one should/could leave their diesels running. I kept thinking to myself..why? If the truck isn't in actual use for a period of time then shut it down. But somehow many light truck owners with diesels feel it's some operating right to let their diesels sit and idle. I believe it is correct that many guys see themselves as operating a big rig and emulating same is part of the experience. To each their own I guess but it does get old after a while when you listen to some of that stuff.
Zeroing in on published torque and hp numbers is deceptive simply because those numbers are peak numbers. While cruising down the road with the throttle partly open does not produce those numbers. In fact it takes a good deal less than those big power numbers to keep a load moving down the road.
In my experience with our 8.1 it has shown it handles our load just fine. It's not screaming nor do I have to bury my foot in it just to move somewhere. Having the extra torque available from the diesels would be nice if I was towing in the hills a lot but I do that only rarely. I average close to 9 mpg on most trips which I consider pretty good considering. At the time we bought we didn't feel the extra $5000 duty on a diesel was necessary and I still don't after living with our truck for almost 2 years. We travel regularly with another couple with a similar 5er and a PSD and we compare notes at times. He averages a bit over 11 mpg while towing and produces greater max torque but that blurs when simply cruising down the road at 60 mph. His rig also has a hard edge compared to ours. Being the 7.3 it has quite the diesel rattle and it vibrates enough to make ours feel like it's off.
To each their own.
'03 Chevy 2500HD 4x4, LT, Ext. cab, LB
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Roadfrog
Chilliwack, BC Canada
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Quote:When was the last time you had to wait for your glow plug light to go out on a gas truck? Another diesel nuance.
When was the last time you had to wait to have your SPARK plugs changed on a diesel?
C'mon guys. The added maintenance on a diesel amounts to a fuel filter every 15k and more oil and maybe the odd draining of the fuel bowl. On that note, I've only done that whenever I change out the fuel filter. My "water in oil" light has otherwise never come on. OK once, but it went out after a restart.
No spark plugs, no cap, no rotor, no plug wires, no pcv valve, etc. and longer oil drain intervals.
As for the HP argument, HP is for bragging rights, TORQUE is what gets you down the road (and up the hill). Speaking of hills, a gasser loses power at an alarming rate at higher elevations. Diesels are not effected.
Factor in the recovery of my initial investment of the diesel option when I sell my truck, and it's a no-brainer.
What should also be mentioned is with a 400 dollar chip/tuner, I'm pushing 360 hp and nearly 700 lbs/ft of torque - at half the rpm of a gasser.
- easier and quicker sale (at a higher price).
- lower fuel cost
- longer life (engineered to last at least 400k without a rebuild)
- better fuel economy
Downside: noise and smoke. Oh yeah, I actually LIKE that!!!!
A check of the local classifieds shows gas 2002 PSD's selling for under 30g. Diesels selling as high as 40g (Canada). I paid 48g for my 02 new.
* This post was
edited 06/25/04 08:53am by Roadfrog *
Cheers
Chris
1999 Winnebago Itasca Spirit 29N
1988 Campion Allante 195
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Roadfrog
Chilliwack, BC Canada
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Quote:But really, this talk about diesels getting better gas mileage is crap. Think about this - we all have spent $45,000 on our 30' 5th wheels, $40,000 on our tow vehicles, and in my case another $30,000 for a boat. Why in the heck is ANYONE on this board concerned about gas mileage!! Think about how insane you sound! There is nothing any of us on this board have done that makes rational financial sense!
That's like saying "I spent 300 grand on my house, I don't need to worry about the heating costs, so I won't insulate it." ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/rolleyes.gif "rolleyes")
I like to believe that being thrifty in as many ways as possible, allowed me the ability to afford buying my trailer, truck etc.
BTW, I double posted above. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/embarrassed.gif "embarrassed") I had already replied to this thread a day or so ago, but the info is still valid, except for the part about the higher elevations argument. This argument is of course based on the fact that diesels nowadays are turbocharged.
BertP: Your earlier comparo of a Hemi and CTD going up a hill, I believed failed to factor in the loss of power that will be realized by the Hemi as it approaches the aforementioned higher elevations.
* This post was
edited 06/25/04 09:28am by Roadfrog *
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BertP
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Joe - Why I bought what I did has nothing to do with which engine is woking harder than the other. But, if you really must know, go to the first page of this thread. It is explained in detail.
Jason S - Excellent points. I'd like to add a couple of my own:
1) The turbo takes some getting used to. In my 1500HD, if I am waiting for a break in traffic, I can just punch it and merge. As a matter of fact, I had to be careful just how hard I punched it becaue the rear end could break loose and cause all kinds if issues. In my 2500HD, if I punch it, almost nothing happens for a second or so until the turbo spools up. In tight traffic, that is a long second or so.
2) Compared to my 2500HD, my 1500HD was an absolute sports car. Because the DMax is so much heavier than the 6 liter, the 1500HD is much nimbler than the 2500HD.
millerliteliker - I know what you mean about the idling of the diesels. I always considered that to be rather inconsiderate of people especially when they parked their diesel in such a way that I was forced to walk through the exhaust to get into the building.
Roadfrog - I can only imagine that you are trollling here. Read any one of a number of posts ont his forum and you will realize that available HP dictates how fast you can get a load up a hill not torque and I have already responded to your inaccurate statement that diesels do not lose power with altitude. As far as maintenance is concerned, you have to replace the spark plugs in gassers once every 100,000 miles. Hardy a major inconvenience or expense.
Also, I hate break this to you, but your PSD and my DMax are rated as light duty engines with a 200,000 mile life expectancy, just like the gassers.
As for the CTD vs Hemi argument and the Hemi losing power with altitude, just how long is the hill you are racing up? Yes, if you start at around 10,000 ft, the CTD will out power the Hemi. But, if you start at sea level, that would have to be one mother of a hill for the CTD to surpass the Hemi's power before reaching the top.
Bert
* This post was
edited 06/25/04 09:43am by BertP *
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Roadfrog
Chilliwack, BC Canada
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Quote:So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming
Quote:Roadfrog - I can only imagine that you are trolling here
DO NOT EVER accuse me of trolling. Just because my points do not agree with yours does not make me a troll. My username is the same on all the forums I'm a long time member of, from irv2.com to thedieselstop.com and everything in between. On that note, I've been a member here since Apr 2001. Never been accused of trolling before that's for sure.
Yes, I do live near some hefty mountains. Not everyone lives on the prairies as you. Anywhere near 500 - 1000 miles of here is mountains.
My info on PSD life is different from yours and I'm hunting down the specs. I recall the figure being a lot higher - and was based on the percentage of engines requiring removal of the heads at that given mileage. I seem to recall a figure of 98% at 400k NOT requiring breakdown. Like I said, I'm getting that figure right now. Your figure may be right, but I seem to recall a far higher figure.
I would never go 100k between spark plug changes, even with platinum plugs.
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BertP
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Roadfrog - My apologies. I did not intend to offend you, but when I saw the two posts saying basically the same thing about turbos and the second one throwing the torque vs HP argument in, it certainly looked like a troll to me.
On the longevity issue, I was referring to what the manufacturer states. It is certainly possible that engines pass that figure - I came across a Chev 350 pickup on the internet that had almost 2 million miles on it and still going - but you will also find engines that do not make it that far. You can destroy any engine in less than 50,000 miles if you really try, and almost any engine can make to to over a million miles if you look after it. I expect my DMax to last over 500,000 miles if I keep it that long, but I had the same expectation of my 6 liter. I am, nonetheless, very interested in any numbers you can dig up on any of the engines.
Bert
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PSDExcursion
Millstone NJ
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Bert, I guess you must feel like the biggest fool in Canada for paying $5000 more for the Duramax with no advantage over a cheap gasser like you say.
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