Sport45
Not far enough from Houston, TX
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transamz9 wrote:I don't have to listen to my engine scream for mercy when I put some weight on it.
That's not screaming for mercy, that's joyous singing! ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
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OhhWell
Florida
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Hannibal wrote:64thunderbolt wrote:Hannibal wrote:64thunderbolt wrote:Hannibal wrote:We don't tow a small little trailer and shower in hotels. We tow a 30ft 5th wheel and stay in various campgrounds. We're also very happy with our truck's performance. We keep up with traffic. Sorry if that peaces you off. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
Doesent p me off at all. I'm happy you are satisfied with your rig and enjoying it. I just take issue with the info you put out about a gasser being a better tow vehicle than a diesel. I don't care how much you preach this, it's just not true in the real world.
Please quote anywhere that I said "a gasser is a better tow vehicle than a diesel". The only issue you seem to have is telling the truth. My Hemi Ram towed the same 10k lb 5th wheel faster up the grades than my '03 duplicate SO 250hp Cummins Ram. That's a fact. I never said the Hemi was a "better tow vehicle". 345 hp will tow faster than 250hp no matter what fuel it burns. That you can quote me on. We tow in the real world. Not sure where you're coming from.
I'm coming from a part of the country that has real mtns and extreem heat. Not sure what % grades or how long they are where you are but I'll bet my truck against a doughnut You can't tow with me in the mtns here. With your 10K trailer And my 13K trailer. my truck wweighs 8200# also. I'm not sure you undrstand what a real pull is.
Ok, and here's my challenge to you. Quote anywhere that I've ever said my truck or previous Hemi powered 2500HD Ram would out tow a modded or newer HO diesel in the Rockies. I've said many times over the years that if we towed heavy in the Rockies, I would have another diesel. A HO Cummins Ram. I have only stated many times perfectly clear that my Hemi Ram would out tow "MY" SO Cummins Rams towing the same 10k lb 5th wheel. Monteagle is our only 5~mile long 5-6% interstate grade to deal with. The 5.4L tows a lighter 8500~lb mid profile 5th wheel about the same. "MY" Cummins Rams had trouble with only 160-250 hp. Any engine gas, diesel, ethanol, steem, pedal power or turbine with the most HP will through gear reduction, torque multiplication, make the most torque at the output of the transmission. Flywheel torque doesn't mean squat if you can't rev it enough to put it to the ground. Torque alone is a static measurement. Has nothing to do with speed. Only with rpm does it equate to speed. The two components together are known as horsepower.
I think this guy is one of the few that actually has a true understanding of what the Torque rating of an engine is. He stated a very specific situation where the higher peak POWER (hp) of the gas engine gives and advantage over a "similar" diesel.
Of course some people had to get completely offended that there could be ANYTHING a gas motor could do better than their more costly diesels. Well, there is... max operating RPM. If those diesel engines could acheive 6-7k RPM, then the total power potential of those engines would blow the gas away.
Guess what, on a long pull up a high grade, the diesel will blow the gas away at first. All that torque will get the wheels spinning much faster. Then, as the speeds increase, we get out of the range of torque and into max power or HP. The diesel has done what it does best and powered that heavy load up but it has run out of steam so to speak. Once it reaches its max power, you aren't getting any more out of it. The gas engine in Hannibel's specific example has more power to give and will keep accelerating beyond the diesel. That's just the way it is.
I know that diesel is the better option for towing heavy loads. I also know that peak power is peak power. It's pretty rare that that would come in to play in many real world settings but it is what it is.
Rememebr the old (80s) Chevy small block gas engines in the pickups that had alot of torque (For the day) but not much HP? It was the same thing. They could knock you in the seat of your pants pulling away from a stoplight but started gasping when passing on the highway.
1998 bounder 36s V10 F53
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OhhWell
Florida
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From Diesel Power Mag:
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/1111dp_king_of_the_hill_rematch/viewall.html
"
The first time we put the 800-lb-ft Ram into gear, the extra torque felt obvious. We found ourselves checking to see if the transfer case was in low range. Yet when we got up to highway speeds, a few things became clear. The first was that even though the Ram matches the Ford (and beats the GMC) in torque production, towing this much weight at highway speeds is a test of horsepower—not torque. The Ram showed its 50hp deficiency attempting to keep up with the Power Stroke and Duramax everywhere we went."
I'm sure they have no idea what they are talking about right?
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blt2ski
Kirkland, Wa
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At slow speeds, it is torque multiplication, at higher speeds, HP wins. At the end of the day, it is having the correct ratio for HOW you use the vehicle/tool/truck etc. If you only need to drive at speeds up to 50 mph, but pull 30-40% grades, you need a different drive train spec than a person that is traveling on interstates at speeds upwards of say 70 mph, and only goes up 15% grades. The two might also need to look at different fuels based on miles driven in a given year, cost to run said rig based on miles driven, will there be a payback? and if so how long will it take in either miles or months/years? Some like myself, a few others I know are equal, they drive them till the wheels fall off. One will not get enough out of a diesel vs gas if the thing does not have compression, tranny is shot, springs are worn out, bed is crunched from rocks being loaded in etc. Either will net if you are lucky the cost of the metal in the truck. OK, so diesel wins a bit as that engine is 300-400 lbs heavier, so what, maybe and additional $30-50?!?!?
There is not in the end a right or wrong answer as to which rig is best. If one can get a td as we could when this thread started for 2000-2500 more, diesel was .10-.20 less than a gal of gas.....one could pay off the additional cost etc in 60-80K miles, which for me is 2-3 yrs, not a bad ROI frankly. Today said 8G difference with diesel running .10-.20 some places near me it is .40 more for diesel, it might take 10-15 yrs and some 300-400K miles to literally pay off the difference, if I can at all, the additional cost of a diesel. For me, the only place a diesel will make sense, is if I am over 6K feet elevation a lot, of which I am not. Most of my towing is literally less than 1000' in elevation. mostly under 500-600' down to sea level.
How you use your rig is how you should spec it. otherwise, you may very well be paying more than you should etc. There is NO right or wrong answer at the end of the day frankly. Same is which tires, tread, brand etc to use. Which color, brand rig, style of motor, ie 6 cyl or V motor.
Marty
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
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64thunderbolt
Az
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one reason for diesel is the lifespan of the eng. Not many gassers will tow heavy and last 3/400K miles. I have several friends approaching 300K and still strong towing heavy ( 10K+ ) trailers. If you figure that in the added price of the truck the diesel is a good investment. I think it's better than trading every 3 yrs or so. My truck is 13 yrs old and is clean, solid, and tows very well. No payments and cheap ins & tags. Need to look at the whole picture. Being able to tow comfortably up the steep pulls is a plus also.
Glen
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Jarlaxle
New England
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Joined: 11/18/2006
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How many of the new diesels, with their hand-grenade HPFP and dozens of delicate sensors, will last that long? The engine in your truck has about as much in common with a new emission diesel as the Pentastar V6 has in common with a Model T.
John and Elizabeth (Liz), with Briza the size XL tabby
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1992 International Genesis school bus conversion
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transamz9
Lawrenceburg Ky
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You guys are forgetting that the diesel engines are making the same HP as the gas motors. Just don't have to turn 5500 RPM's to get it. Are you going to tell me that you feel comfy holding 5-5500 rpm's for 4-5 miles at a time?
2016 Ram 3500 Mega Cab Limited/2013 Ram 3500 SRW Cummins(sold)/2005 RAM 2500 Cummins/2011 Sandpiper 345 RET (sold) 2015 Sanibel 3601/2008 Nitro Z9 Mercury 250 PRO XS the best motor made.
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Taco
VA
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I have ran gas engines at 8000+ rpm for hours straight and it liked it just fine. A diesel is near it's redline at max power too.
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Hannibal
Tampa Bay Area
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transamz9 wrote:You guys are forgetting that the diesel engines are making the same HP as the gas motors. Just don't have to turn 5500 RPM's to get it. Are you going to tell me that you feel comfy holding 5-5500 rpm's for 4-5 miles at a time?
Now you're starting to catch on. With the 345hp Hemi Ram in stock form, it needed to turn 4200rpm to produce 300hp. My '03 SO Cummins powered duplicate... wasn't capable of 300hp in stock form. So at a casual 4200rpm growl, the '05 Hemi would out tow the '03 SO Cummins in stock form without the shrill of 5500rpm. That's just my experience. The newer diesels will walk away from my 5.4L F250 towing anything. But at the cost of $8k and much higher potential for troubles. I'll gladly take the slow lane. Others are free to disagree.
2020 F250 STX CC SB 7.3L 10spd 3.55 4x4
2010 F250 XLT CC SB 5.4L 5spdTS 3.73
ex '95 Cummins,'98 12v Cummins,'01.5 Cummins,'03 Cummins; '05 Hemi
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Jarlaxle
New England
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transamz9 wrote:You guys are forgetting that the diesel engines are making the same HP as the gas motors. Just don't have to turn 5500 RPM's to get it. Are you going to tell me that you feel comfy holding 5-5500 rpm's for 4-5 miles at a time?
If required...sure. Won't hurt anything.
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