Jarlaxle
New England
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You do not need a diesel. I have NEVER, NOT ONCE seen ANY RV trailer that could not be towed safely with gas power.
But sure, let's talk about going downhill: a diesel needs a band-aid fix (like an exhaust brake), a gas engine does not.
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64thunderbolt
Az
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Jarlaxle wrote:You do not need a diesel. I have NEVER, NOT ONCE seen ANY RV trailer that could not be towed safely with gas power.
But sure, let's talk about going downhill: a diesel needs a band-aid fix (like an exhaust brake), a gas engine does not.
Ever pull one that is in excess of 13K? I don't think a gasser would like it. I have towed 5/6K with a gasser and I got by for a few years but when I went to go big on the trailer I upgraded to a diesel. Trust me if I didn't need it I wouldn't have it because of the cost of repairs and maint.
I have a friend that has one that is around 16K ever pull something like that with a gasser??
* This post was
edited 07/16/12 10:59pm by 64thunderbolt *
Glen
04 Tail gator XT 34' 5th wheel garage model
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transamz9
Lawrenceburg Ky
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Jarlaxle wrote:You do not need a diesel. I have NEVER, NOT ONCE seen ANY RV trailer that could not be towed safely with gas power.
But sure, let's talk about going downhill: a diesel needs a band-aid fix (like an exhaust brake), a gas engine does not.
I don't think he meant that diesels are safer one way or the other than gas, just a more comfy, laid back pull. I stop my 18'000# load just fine without an EB also. It's just 1 more thing that a diesel engine can have to make the tow more comfy and laid back. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/awink.gif "awink")
2016 Ram 3500 Mega Cab Limited/2013 Ram 3500 SRW Cummins(sold)/2005 RAM 2500 Cummins/2011 Sandpiper 345 RET (sold) 2015 Sanibel 3601/2008 Nitro Z9 Mercury 250 PRO XS the best motor made.
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blt2ski
Kirkland, Wa
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Put a supercharger on the gas rig at 10K ft, NOW compare said rig to a turbo diesel. If the NA gas rig will pull with a TD at sealevel, but not at 10K, with supercharger it will now pull with the td, as BOTH now have forced air induction. Some of the older diesels like the GM 6.2, Navistars idi 6.9/7.3 to name a couple of them, did no better at elevation than a gas rig did. IF one is going to compare fuel style motors, make sure BOTH have the same advantage, or disadvantage. Otherwise, yes, one will do better in a given circumstance.
By the way, see which rig will pull a 30% grade at GCWR, a GM dmax, or a GM 6.0 gas with either 3.73 or 4.10 gears with the 6l80e.........answer just might surprise you!
marty
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
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transamz9
Lawrenceburg Ky
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We are talking about today's motors. Now if you are going to spend money to make the gas pull with the diesel at elevation then let me take the same dollar amount that you spend to to get that gasser to pull at elevation and put it in the diesel also. Whole new ball game now. You can do a lot of work for a $1000-$1500 on a diesel.
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64thunderbolt
Az
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30% 0r 30*??? I'm not sure any of them could possibly pull a 30% grade. You probably couldn't walk up 30% unless on your hands & knees.
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transamz9
Lawrenceburg Ky
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64thunderbolt wrote:30% 0r 30*??? I'm not sure any of them could possibly pull a 30% grade. You probably couldn't walk up 30% unless on your hands & knees. A 30% grade is only 16.70*. Steep but doable. I think Daytona Motor Speedway is 33* banking which is between 60and 70% grade. That's also doable but you gonna smell so bad smells....LOL!
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Jarlaxle
New England
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transamz9 wrote:We are talking about today's motors. Now if you are going to spend money to make the gas pull with the diesel at elevation then let me take the same dollar amount that you spend to to get that gasser to pull at elevation and put it in the diesel also. Whole new ball game now. You can do a lot of work for a $1000-$1500 on a diesel.
You're $8000+ in the hole to start with...that is a path you want to avoid!
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transamz9
Lawrenceburg Ky
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Jarlaxle wrote:transamz9 wrote:We are talking about today's motors. Now if you are going to spend money to make the gas pull with the diesel at elevation then let me take the same dollar amount that you spend to to get that gasser to pull at elevation and put it in the diesel also. Whole new ball game now. You can do a lot of work for a $1000-$1500 on a diesel.
You're $8000+ in the hole to start with...that is a path you want to avoid!
Look at the prices of the used diesels compared to the used gas in my area. I will get most of that back and I don't have to listen to my engine scream for mercy when I put some weight on it.
used gas verses diesel pricing
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blt2ski
Kirkland, Wa
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At the end of 10+ yrs of owning a rig, diesel or gas, the chance of me getting 8G more out of a diesel is pretty slim and none. If I get $1000 I'm doing pretty good, considering how I work my trucks. They get washed once a year whether they need it or not. I load 2-3 tons of gravel, dirt, lawn clippings etc daily. I also do not buy leather or carpets.
So reality is, a diesel as said, already costs 8G more to start with, lets add a SC to a gas, and both are about equal in initial start up costs.
Along with I am talking 30%, not 30degrees. I travel up and down 15-20% grades daily locally. Granted all at what i would call sea level. Using some formula's I have, a 6.0 gas WILL pull over a 30% grade with 3.73, 35% with 4.10s, a dmax a whopping 25%! On a 3% freeway grade, the dmax will be a bit faster, maybe 5 mph to 10 mph tops per most of the recent magazine tests using equal trailers. The new 6sp 6.0 gas GM, also out pulls the old 8.1 with the almighty allison. As the 8.1 did not have as much HP as the 6.0. The allison only has a 3.08 first gear, the 6l90e a 4.10. The dmax uses a 1.73 TC, the 6.0 and 8.1 a 2.05. Yeah the dmax has more torque to start with, but if it does not have the gearing to multiply it as much, it will not pull as steep a grade. Oh by the way, my whopping 175/335 idi 7.3 has the ability to pull a 30+% grade at 30K lbs. Altho I admit, way the heck slower than my dmax or a current gas rig on a 3-4% freeway grade. As it was not setup for freeway hauling, it was setup to do city driving at speeds under 50 for the most part. Which is what I typically do with it. It is a rare day it is on the interstate. i have no need.
At the end of the day, if the rig works for you, does not stall out on steep grades, keeps up a decent speed on the freeway if you drive it, carries the load you want, you have the right rig. GCWR, max hp,torque, low gears, in and of them self, are not the end all be all. I had a 235HP 454 get out pulled by a 105 hp 292 I6 more than once when I had both working in my landscape biz. The 454 could not move on a grade, as the th400 had a super tall first gear of 2.48, 4-1 at best with the tc working. Too tall, thing stalled out at gvwr on a 20+% driveway grade I had to go up at times. Not to mention the client that had a 33% grade goin up from Lk washington to the road. YES 33%, 6" rise per 18" run, built a set of stairs up along the driveway. Interstate max is 6, for short bursts 8%, as that is the max military will allow to mover rigs about among other reasons.
marty
Marty
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