otrfun
On The Road
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jaycocreek wrote:Quote:It gets approx. 12-13 hauling our camper (3,500-4,000 lbs. loaded). I get 13-14 unloaded and 10-11 loaded with the same weight you mentioned with a 460 Ford..Now if I could put that 6-speed or 10-speed transmission behind the old 460,it would work far less..
I won't argue a diesel has more power and better gas mileage but I will note that diesel engines is not needed with a meager truck camper and a modern gas engine with a modern transmission..My 460 does a great jog with 36-4000 pounds in the back,lots of compression for down hill and plenty of power for up hill...
With the speed limits as they are,a diesel has no edge in power with a modern gas engine..They both will go over the top of Idaho mountains at the same speed carrying a modest truck camper..Now throw in a big 5er and the edge definitely goes do the diesel with all the weight.. Wow, you completely ignored the primary point in my post with your convenient snip: aerodynamics. I suggest you reread my post.
As for your gas vs. diesel power comparisons, you fail to mention the huge amount of tranny activity required in the mtns with a gas engine. Yes, HP is HP, but there is NO substitute for torque when it comes to low drama (little to no tranny activity) while driving in the mtns.
* This post was
edited 11/16/19 10:41am by otrfun *
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jaycocreek
Idaho
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otrfun wrote:jaycocreek wrote: . . . As for gas vs diesel with a truck camper,a gas does just fine with 4500# in the back..That diesel engine isn't for hauling a measly 4500# it was meant for heavy loads like big fifth wheels etc..JMHO I get the point you're trying to make. However, in terms of raw engine load, a decent-sized hard-side camper is still a challenge, even for a big-block diesel. I say that based on mpg's---mpg's more or less define the load on the engine. Our Cummins gets 17-18 highway empty. It gets approx. 11 mpg pulling a 12,000 lb. 5th wheel. It gets approx. 12-13 hauling our camper (3,500-4,000 lbs. loaded). Based on these numbers I'd say our Cummins is still workin' a tad hard hauling the camper. IMO, it's not so much the weight of the camper that's the issue, it's the wind coefficient. A camper is very inefficient aerodynamically. All the flat surfaces on the lower rear (each side), behind the cab, plus the jacks, not to mention the big cabover, creates a *lot* of wind drag.
Wasn't trying to be snippy.If I was,sorry..I do not understand your point other than TC's buck the wind etc and there is a 4000# load in the bed..That 4000# load is nothing for a modern pickup or even my ancient 460..Wind or whatever does make a difference but on average,a diesel motor is not needed for a truck camper alone,modern gas engines and there new transmissions do wonders over the old engines like the 454 and 460 that were common in 34-35 foot motorhomes..
I could see no advantage for me(as an example) to upgrade to a diesel just hauling a 4000# load..The speed limit is mostly 55 mph where I live with an occasional 65 mph..I can do those with ease with my gas engine and my 39-4000# camper...Compression is fantastic rarely needing breaks on the local passes...
The diesel engine is just overkill for anyone who just takes there truck camper,all the HP and torque is not needed when obeying the speed limit..Diesels are expensive to drive/repair and maintain..I just could not afford a 16K break down as Buzzcut posted a couple weeks ago....
As a gas guy,I see the benefits of a diesel for heavy loads,just not with a truck camper..
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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OP, realize the banter about trucks has just started over again for the 1000th time with the crew on this forum.
You're on the right track though. What jimh said is about spot on.
1 ton srw truck will do the job with more upgrades than a dually would need and not be 100% "legal" everywhere, if that's a concern for you. It's not a concern for some, myself included.
A 3500 dually is the sweet spot for hauling that much weight. Minimal to zero upgrades needed but minor rear suspension upgrades maybe preferred.
450/4500 is also fine but overkill. Not bad, just more than needed. Depends what else you'll do with the truck after the year long trip is up. 450 will be a lumber wagon for anything other than towing or hauling heavy.
Gas v diesel? Again, flip a coin. Do you want the luxury of more power than you'll ever need to haul a TC and 30% ish better loaded fuel mileage at the initial extra expense of the diesel? (Resale will net most/all that money back if the truck is well cared for)
Or do you want the perceived simplicity of the gas engine and the lower priced truck with worse fuel mileage?
That is a run your numbers thing.
Now for my opinion......I run a heavy camper on a srw truck and have no problem with it, but it's not on the truck full time. If I had a dedicated TC hauler for a 4-5klb camper, a dually would be greatly preferred.
But I wouldn't even consider a gas dually, A. Because it's kinda embarrassing to have the biggest baddest truck with the littlest weakest engine, lol! And B. Because the resale on a big crew cab dually 4x4 truck with a gas engine is abysmal. You limit the number of perspective Byers to basically only someone who's buying a dually for local "work" and doesn't know what they're doing, or the dedicated camper hauler, of whom are very few.
This will raise eyebrows with some of the codgers here, but just do a little research, look at used trucks and their prices and how many are gas and diesel in the big HD pickups.
Buying a gasser dually is like buying a pink truck. It may do the the job, but ain't no one going to love it but you!
Good luck, have fun shopping!
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jaycocreek
Idaho
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G-Dog wrote:Buying a gasser dually is like buying a pink truck. It may do the the job, but ain't no one going to love it but you!
I see your on par again...
What you and Jim are missing is the op lives in Canada..Think/think/think...They pull over and weigh people unlike the USA...There is no SRW that will haul a Northern Lite 10-2 loaded and ready to camp and be under there GVWR..Period...Pink or not..The guy could get a ticket..
Pink trucks,really..Laffin
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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And you'll have the perpetual cherry pickers of select situations to "prove " their point. Aka the "Buzzcuts $16k repair..." Story.
The background is "Buzzcut" had or still has one of the least relaible pile of _____ Diesel engines made. I wouldn't buy one of them either. But I would buy any of the current big 3 truck diesels and run it with confidence.
But you know.....whatever makes for a good story.
Just like the "gas will haul it fine". Of course it will and it does even better when you're going 55mph half the time and poking around even slower most of the rest of the time.
Here, the question is, do you want 6 mpg, down shifted 3 gears screaming at 4000+ rpms all day to maintain 65 mph across the majority of the country? (You know, the part where every wheat field looks like the next one for 1000 miles)
Or are you going to putz down county roads the whole way stopping at every "Farmer John took a dump here in 1888" roadside pullout sign?
I blow through those areas at 75-80mph on the freeway so I can get to the next Real, actually interesting attraction.
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jaycocreek
Idaho
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Dang G-Dog..How could I argue with such logic...
The op is buying a Nothern Lite 10-2 that will weigh around 45-4600 pounds ready to camp(estimate)..He never mentioned pulling anything heavy that would require something more powerful than a modern gas engine with a modern transmission..
Maybe in the future a fifth wheel is in order,then a diesel makes sense but not with just a truck camper..JMHO owning a 460 ford that eats our hills with ease and still gets 11.3 MPG loaded from Missoula to Grangeville with the TC on via hiway 12 over Lolo pass and a couple others.
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jimh406
Western MT
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jaycocreek, Lolo pass doesn’t even count as a pass except it gets snow with a max speed limit of 45. Nice try though. Fwiw, my drw gets great mpg through there as well, but dw hates that road. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/grin.gif "grin")
Anyway, I think the he’s in Canada is a red herring no matter how many times you repeat it.
Sounds like you don’t like diesels, but the fact remains that they are extremely popular for a reason. And ... that reason isn’t because all of the owners have fivers. You might want to think abou this for a minute to see if you can come up with why.
Back to the OP question though, DRW is preferred to give more flexibiliy with what OP carries.
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jaycocreek
Idaho
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Quote:Sounds like you don’t like diesels, but the fact remains that they are extremely popular for a reason. And ... that reason isn’t because all of the owners have fivers. You might want to think abou this for a minute to see if you can come up with why
Nope,don't hate diesels at all..Just giving my opinion on if it is needed with just a truck camper..IMHO it is not..
As to Lolo,it sure was not 45 mph when I went over it..Montana speed limits surpass Idaho by alot..It's 55 on the Idaho side..
I have said what I think and get only the two regulars with there weird replies..So the op has to make a decision on gas or diesel for his new Northern Lite TC..
Good luck with your choice and enjoy that new TC,it's a very popular truck camper..
Edited for JimH...This was the speed limit when I was there,far from 45 mph..
Quote:
U.S. 12 drops from an elevation of 5,235 feet above sea level at Lolo Pass to parallel the West Fork of Lolo Creek in a narrow valley west of Wagon Mountain. Truckers are advised to drive slow over the next four miles due to the curving nature of the two-lane highway.
Speed limits are set at 70 miles per hour for cars and 65 miles per hour for trucks along U.S. 12 east. Night speed limits drop to 65 and 55 MPH respectively.
* This post was
edited 11/16/19 12:34pm by jaycocreek *
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jimh406
Western MT
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Idaho Lolo Web Pass cam shows a 50 speed limit sign. So, we were both wrong, but both close. There are some higher speeds on highway 12 on the Montana side but not near the pass.
Highway 12 is not the pass the entire length and not steep the entire length.
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bigfootgrey
Connecticut
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![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/kMg7IYsl.jpg)
Our Bigfoot 10.4 is close in weight to your NL 10.2 Truck is used as daily driver. Average 14.5 MPG with camper on. I wouldn’t want to haul it with anything less. You asked for the BEST truck for your camper: 4x4 Diesel Dually
2011 Ford F-350 PSD SC DRW
2008 Bigfoot 25C-10.4E
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