jimh406
Western MT
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DieselBurps wrote:The Cirrus is a way better built camper than the Northstar. Plus the Cirrus doesn't have a cassette toilet, meaning you can swap the crapper out in the cirrus for a better composting toilet.
What's better?
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GeoBoy
Bennington
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jimh425 wrote:DieselBurps wrote:The Cirrus is a way better built camper than the Northstar. Plus the Cirrus doesn't have a cassette toilet, meaning you can swap the crapper out in the cirrus for a better composting toilet.
What's better?
Yeah, what’s better?
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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BradW wrote:lonegunman wrote:You truck will haul a 4,000lb camper when prepped correctly and you won't die. I regularly haul my Arctic Fox 865 on my F-250 with zero issues.
Are you also towing an 6,000 lb trailer with a 1,000 lb tongue weight on an extended hitch?
bradw
When we take the boat, yup. 2' extension plugged into the factory hitch and hit the road. Boat and trailer, loaded and full of fuel is around 6klbs.
Honestly, it doesn't drive or tow much different at all. But towing a 3ton boat is easier on the vehicle than hauling an 8' wide X 12' tall box.
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Kayteg1
California > Nevada
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Yeah, at highway speeds it is frontal area that makes whole difference.
When I was hauling equipment, I could load 10,000 lb forklift and with low mast it made negligible difference in mpg on my F450.
The other time I put 3500 lb forklift, but with tall mast and mpg dropped quite a bit.
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larkyblast
calgary
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DieselBurps wrote:The Cirrus is a way better built camper than the Northstar. Plus the Cirrus doesn't have a cassette toilet, meaning you can swap the crapper out in the cirrus for a better composting toilet.
Why do you say this? One of the attractions to the northstar is the build quality, everything I've seen says that it's very good.
We prefer cassette and aren't interested in changing to a composting.
We were able to look at the 2020 820 and 720 this weekend. I really wish we could see the Northstar so we could make a decision....
Of the two, we prefered the 720. The layout and seating was much more comfortable, the interior felt roomy. There was a closet with a lower section for shoes right inside the door (shoe storage is one of the strangest problems in a TC I find). The 820 just felt like too much camper for us; huge fridge giant microwave, narrow hallway feel. They have improved the seating for 2020 with the Lagun table rather than the fixed one in the older models.
The finishing in the 720 did look significantly cheaper and poorly executed than the 820, especially since the 820 was only 3k more. For the money you get way more camper with the 820 but still with the weight, seating layout, and cassette, the 720 seemed like a better fit for us. If we didn't want to take a trailer, the choice would be tougher. If I could get the price down significantly I would go for the 720, but as priced it's too expensive for what it is. I've also decided to add the NS Laredo into the mix. If we got the 720 we'd have to buy a bigger hitch for the trailer, so if we were willing to do that for the 720, may as well consider the Laredo which gives us more room than the Liberty with similar weight and options. At this rate I might buy a camper for next summer ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/rolleyes.gif "rolleyes")
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BradW
Mayor of Flat Rock
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Grit dog wrote: Honestly, it doesn't drive or tow much different at all. But towing a 3ton boat is easier on the vehicle than hauling an 8' wide X 12' tall box.
Agreed. Boat trailers generally have about half the tongue weight as a utility trailer of the same total weight. Plus boat trailers are generally longer, have the axle farther back, have a lower CG, a much reduced cross wind load, etc for the same weight.
We used to tow our single axle bass boat behind our srw truck/tc and I couldn't really tell it was back there except when we were stopping. I wasn't expecting a huge difference when we towed our jeep on a car hauler trailer (7,500 lbs)......wrong. It had a lot more tongue weight and put a lot more weight on our rear axle due to the 24" extension. It put our rear tires very close to their rated capacities. Plus, it wasn't much fun to drive.
Our situation had changed so we didn't need to use our 1-ton truck as a daily driver any more so we decided our next truck would be a drw.
bradw
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DieselBurps
SLC
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Quote:Why do you say this? One of the attractions to the northstar is the build quality, everything I've seen says that it's very good.
We prefer cassette and aren't interested in changing to a composting.
I say this as an owner with a Northstar and cassette toilet. Calling the build quality "very good" in my opinion is pretty subjective and compared to what? It is a wood framed camper that will rot if the slightest bit of water gets inside. It still has the same old typical RV 'rubber' roof. They haven't changed the interiors in 20 years and arn't receptive to change in general. I called them one time about a question and an issue I was having, their response was that they had new campers rolling off the line in a month and should buy a new one. To be fair, the way I use my camper is probably designed beyond what it was engineered to do which is RV parks and very occasional use.
Have you used a cassette toilet? They work fine for a short weekend, but beyond that they are a major pain in the butt, not to mention how nasty they are.
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joerg68
St. Ingbert, Germany
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What is nasty about a cassette that is not even nastier about a black tank?
You need to empty them frequently, but we use ours without chemicals or SOG fan. Nothing particularly nasty about them.
My personal experience with build quality is with a few other brands other than Northstar as well. Compared to the other campers I had and some I have seen up close, the Northstar is nicely built. A bit old-fashioned, that much is true. But it is not like aluminum framed campers or fiberglass shells are always problem-free. They all have their pros and cons. At least the Northstar people know what a drill is and how to use it, and how to measure a right angle... Yes, the quality bar in RV manufacturing sometimes really is that low.
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DieselBurps
SLC
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Geoboy wrote:Yeah, what’s better?
This is just my personal opinion. I will start with a few off the top of my head.
.1) The Northstar is a wood framed camper, if any bit of water gets to it, it rots, and you may not realize it until it is too late. I had this problem with mine, there are some sharp screws in the AC unit, over time on rough roads those screw punctured the rubber roof, water was able to get in, and it was not caught until a leak presented itself. There is no way of knowing this until it is too late. Fortunately I was able to repair it myself, which involved a new roof, that is a 5-10K repair at an RV facility.
Bonus points for Cirrus. It's not a wood framed camper
2.) I fail to understand what is so great about "rubber roofs" That's all manufactures use. They seem cheap to me, and I would think in this day and age there would be something better out there.
Bonus points to the Cirrus on this one. They don't use a rubber roof.
3.) Northstar interiors are straight out of a 90's motel room. Northstar acts like their poop don't stink, and have no desire to innovate. They use fake cheap wood, the countertop is made with a cover over particle wood. The insulation is not that great, perhaps better than the cheapest made campers on the market but not by much.
-with the Cirrus the interior is night and day better. The quality from what I can tell is also a lot better.
4.)Cassette toilet- my personal opinion is that in some instances it is slightly better than a black tank, but with a blank tank you at least don't have to watch **** flow out, and that smell? It's horrendous, with all the methane and stuff I don't think you will be wheeling your cassette poop suitcase into a mcdonalds or friends house to empty. Also, in Europe at least when they use a cassette toilet it usually comes with a SOG kit, they don't do that with Northstar, so basically when you open the trap door with all the methane and heat build up in the tank it has the potential to literally explode the feces contents up and out of. Ask my GF how she knows. The SOG releases this pressure and vents it outside when the door is open
- Plus one for a composting toilet
5.) The appliances in the Northstar are not horrible, but they are not that great either, they are same stuff found in 99% of all other RVs. Again, no innovation by Northstar here.
-There are better options out there, like the Truma, or the Alde system in Cirrus.
6.) The tiedowns on the northstar rip out when going offroad. Again, not an issue if you stick to the pavement or RV parks, I am told they have since addressed this with some steel plate added to the wood.
7.) Those Dometic Seitz windows and Heiki skylight are of poor quality. I like the concept better than the typical RV window but both skylight and windows found in Northstar are of poor quality. Have you tried getting replacement parts for the Heiki? Next to impossible, and they are very expensive to replace.
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joerg68
St. Ingbert, Germany
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Quote:Also, in Europe at least when they use a cassette toilet it usually comes with a SOG kit,
As far as I know, there is/was a "disagreement" between the SOG inventors and the RV toilet suppliers. None of the RVs by the major players here come with an SOG installed, they are always retrofitted or dealer installed.
I agree that Heki and Seitz products are overpriced for what they offer. But for a long time, they were considered "state of the art". I read that current Northstar campers don't use them any longer.
The appliances are a sad story, really. All manufacturers have to order from the same pool of products, and quality appears to be getting worse every year, while innovation is slow at best. The kitchen fan in my Northstar is a joke. The range oven quit working reliably in the second year. Can't really blame that on the camper manufacturer. They can only install what they can get, and I hear the smaller manufacturers have difficulties getting their supplies at reasonable prices. There are higher-quality product lines, but if installing them prices your product out of the market, what are you going to do?
Wood vs. Aluminum vs. Fiberglass vs. Sandwich is an age old discussion. Might as well make it into a religion. IMO it is out there with "gas vs. diesel".
* This post was
edited 06/11/19 12:38am by joerg68 *
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