larkyblast
calgary
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I have a Ram 3500 SRW crew cab short box. The door sticker shows GVWR as 10,100lbs. The front axle max weight is 5200, Rear 6200. Truck weight 7300lbs (diesel).
I thought the calculation to carry a truck camper was simple: Take the GVWR - base weight - passenger weight = weight of loaded camper possible.
So in my example 10100-7300-300 (us plus our dog)= 2500lbs
So the max loaded camper I can carry is 2500 lbs.
I have been looking at a cirrus 820. Dry weight of this camper is 2500lbs, but could be as much as 2800 with options. So you are looking at over 3000lbs wet which is way too heavy for my truck. I find it crazy that I can't carry a midsized camper with a 1t truck but there it is. Even the Laredo I was also considering pushes it at 2100lbs dry. These are non slide campers.
When I told the dealer I'd have to pass on the Cirrus because it was too heavy he was incredulous. He insists that he loads these on 3/4 and 1t trucks all the time and that I don't know what I'm talking about because the camper is distributed to both axles. When you look at the combined axle rating on my truck it is 11,400lb. Is this my true starting weight? Of course he suggests timbren upgrades to truck, but my understanding was that these don't increase the load you can carry,they just make that load travel better and create less sag on the back of the truck and less sway.I also thought the equipment itself has to be calculated in your total weight numbers.
I am already looking at much smaller campers but wonder why I see so many much larger campers on trucks like mine.
Insight appreciated.
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Kayteg1
California > Nevada
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Door sticker shows taxable GVWR, when your actual is added axles capacity 5200+6200=11400 lb.
But with TC most of the load goes on rear axle, while not much you can do to use front axle capacity (I put generator on front to do that).
So for your scenario you need to weight your empty rear axle and deduct it from 6200lb capacity. That will give you realistic camper weight you can carry.
Still confirm tires are up to the task.
When it comes to salesman BS and owners ignorance - there is no limit.
Also realistically- the camper listed at 2800 lb will be closer to 3000, or above 4000 loaded for travel.
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work2much
On the Road
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Many of us go by GAWR, tire and rims. We have been over on GVWR on every camper combo we have owned in 25 years but under on axle, tire and rim. We have never had any weight related breakdown, accident or issue, not even a flat tire and we have driven a lot of miles. That is just my experience and not recommending anything to anyone. Everyone has to make their own decisions and a lot of factors go into safety. I see guys pushing 80 mph with their 2500's and huge 5th wheels all the time. That scenario scares me a lot more than my TC poking along the slow lane at 60.
GVWR to a large extent is a licensing number. I believe the manufacturers don't want to risk sales by increasing these numbers as license and insurance number go up as well. That's why Ford and Ram cap out at the exact same GVWR in their 3500 duallys Certainly one truck or the other could go above 14k, even a little bit. Look at the fight for TQ and HP. The GVWR bragging rights seem to take a backseat to cost of ownership.
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Lwiddis
Southern California :(
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"He insists that he loads these on 3/4 and 1t trucks all the time..."
Find another dealer that is honest about your truck's capacity. Does it need to be a TC? TTs are great too.
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BradW
Mayor of Flat Rock
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It appears that 820 is made for a long bed? I looked at Cirrus web page and could not tell for sure.
Many people carry 2,500 lb (claimed weight) campers on 3/4 ton srw trucks. But I would not put a long bed TC on your short bed truck. That is especially true if you also plan on towing something on an extended hitch and driving at interstate speeds.
I guarantee you that 2,500 lb camper will add +3,500 lbs to your truck with camper, liquids, gear, tide downs, hitch, etc. Mine went from 2,700 to +4,000.
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Old-Biscuit
Verde Valley
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MFG GVWR is for warranty issues, CLASS designations and registration fees.
Payload is based on the MFGs GVWR
Mfg. GVWR has no legal standing per se. ---Many states allow registration higher then MFG GVWR so States don't even recognize it as a concern
Axle & Tire Max Load Ratings ARE legal statutes
Do NOT exceed those ratings.
Load up truck camp ready.fuel passengers stuff in cab and then go to CAT Scales and get weighed
Front Axle, Rear Axle and Total weight.
How much weight can you add to axles & tire loads w/o exceeding them?
Now you have real numbers to work with.
Truck Campers.....look at their GVWR.
Got enough axle/tire load to handle that weight?
Is it time for your medication or mine?
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larkyblast
calgary
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Thank you for the answers, this helps alot. I am comfortable using my axle and tire ratings to understand what is possible. This is basically what the salesman is telling me but I feel sales are more their business, not vehicle engineering.
The Cirrus 820 is their short box camper and the 920 is the long box camper.
We do travel light and do not have a lot of gear in the camper, but still I think loaded I'd be 3500-4000 lbs for the Cirrus. We do spend a lot of time in deep snow and off pavement on forest service roads. Our current hard side 1978 camper weighs 800 lbs!
So with my 6200lb rear axle I'd probably be ok, but pushing it if I also wanted to tow my small trailer (tongue weight ~650-800lbs).
Tires are 265/70R17E 2731 lbs. So does that mean for the pair of rear tires I have 5462 lbs of capacity? Well under what the axle can handle... what a flaw of initial design...
Having to add a hellwig rear sway and/or air bags and the superhitch is one of the reasons I'm looking at smaller campers. All those truck upgrades are expensive.
I wish I could find a cirrus 720 near me. Closest one is an 18 hour drive away. Truck camper shopping is so depressing. Not just because of the weight but because they are all so ugly and lack any modern innovations (except cirrus). Plus they all come with options I do not want. Microwave, AC, TV. If I see one more beige/pink faux sponge finish vinyl wall or yellow or cherry cabinets....
Any camper that actually makes sense for us is a custom build with a 6-9 month wait time. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/doh.gif "doh") igh:
My new top runner is the Northstar liberty. I will have to paint over the sponge bob vinyl and buy a new heater right out of the gate I guess, but it's that or wait 8 months then drive 22 hours to pick up camper. Already I have to drive 7 hours to find a northstar dealer.
Appreciate the info!!
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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What you're missing is knowledge about your vehicle and it's components.
You can do a whole lot more with your truck (even though you didn't say what year it is) for a whole lot less than $5k in "upgrades", even if you pay someone a fair price to install a couple upgrades.
For starters, you don't even have as heavy of tires as the truck came with, but now 17" truck tires are extinct in any heavy load ratings.
Do some more research on your truck instead of campers and I believe you'll find it's easier and more economical to upgrade your truck a bit than find/order customize a camper to fit a need that is not a real need.
If you read even only the TC forum on here, you can extrapolate enough information to make an informed decision.
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wnjj
Cornelius, Oregon
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Old-Biscuit wrote:Axle & Tire Max Load Ratings ARE legal statutes
Do NOT exceed those ratings.
While there are axle weight maximums, they are far above anything a pickup truck could get to (i.e. 20k drive, 12k steer). I don't know of any laws covering tire ratings for personal vehicles, at least in Oregon where I've searched thoroughly.
If you can point me toward some I'd love to have a look.
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larkyblast
calgary
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Grit dog wrote:What you're missing is knowledge about your vehicle and it's components.
You can do a whole lot more with your truck (even though you didn't say what year it is) for a whole lot less than $5k in "upgrades", even if you pay someone a fair price to install a couple upgrades.
For starters, you don't even have as heavy of tires as the truck came with, but now 17" truck tires are extinct in any heavy load ratings.
Do some more research on your truck instead of campers and I believe you'll find it's easier and more economical to upgrade your truck a bit than find/order customize a camper to fit a need that is not a real need.
If you read even only the TC forum on here, you can extrapolate enough information to make an informed decision.
Thanks, I've done everything you recommend already. I've spent hours reading on here and other forums, articles in adventuring and truck camper magazines, snowmobile trailer magazines, you name it. Reading through the spec sheets for all the Ram trucks. They all say the same thing: that airbags, suspension upgrades and tires (things you are suggesting) do nothing to change your GVWR. What you're suggesting is that I just don't understand how to change the limitations of my truck, but my research says that you can not change those limitations, you can only changes how it feels to drive and prevent blowing out your rear suspension.
What has been really helpful here, is that pretty much no one uses the GVWR that is posted inside the door, and that the weight on each axle is far more important. This greatly increases my load capacity. It has also helped me to understand that most people think they can increase the weight carrying capacity of their vehicle by changing their dynamics. I am not an engineer so I don't know. I notice no one mentions upgrading their brakes.
I think I've provided more than enough information about my truck, except that I forgot the year: 2012. What else do I need to know other than the front and rear axle rating, the truck weight and the tire ratings? I am not a mechanic or engineer, so I am trying to educate myself to the best of my ability. Even on threads on this forum I've seen people argue up and down that you can't exceed the GVWR and others say it's the only way to go....and that's why I'm asking that specific question. I did all of this before looking at campers, and was genuinely curious why the numbers I had calculated didn't match with what I was seeing on people's trucks and what the salesman are telling me I can buy. First thing they ask is what truck I have then show me a bigger camper.
The tires are the ones my truck came with. It is a 2012 3500 SRW with only 30,000kms on it.
I have researched the price of the wheels, tires, hellwig rear sway, timbren air bags ect. To add the hellwig would be the cheapest at around $250.00 IF I could do it myself, which is a huge maybe. Tires would be min 300$ each if I kept my OEM wheels, so that's 1200 right there. Nito does make 17's. Air bags over $1500, Timbren suspension upgrade $650. So now I'm already at $3600 without new wheels or labour or the super hitch, add another $2000 for that if I did want to tow with one of the bigger campers.
Anyhow, this was only to help me to understand why i have been encouraged over and over to exceed my GVWR when my previous reading always said to start there when choosing a camper. I've already definitely decided to go lighter, so I can keep my towing options more open. I am going to look in more detail at new tires.
Thanks again, a lot of good info here.
PS, I am not really limiting my camper selection because of size, more so because of features, I was just curious if I did change my mind about that.
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