FrankShore
Laguna Beach, CA
Senior Member
Joined: 04/18/2014
View Profile
|
mountainkowboy wrote:Bols2DawaLL wrote:mountainkowboy wrote:the 192 seems to be the winner. Today we looked at a 2018 Lance 1995...an impressive unit and a possibility.
Ha , those are our 2 finalists too although if I go with Lance i'll be buying a gently used one
You and me both, there pretty proud of them, and I didn't see 20K worth of difference.
It's what you CAN'T see that makes Lance better!
2014 F-250
2014 Minnie Winnie 2351DKS (Traded In-Burnout-Use A Surge Protector!)
2015 Arctic Fox 22G (Great Trailer But Heavy - Traded In)
2018 Lance 1685 w/ Solar & 4 Seasons Package
1999 Beneteau 461 Oceanis Yacht
En Norski i en Fransk båt - Dette må jeg se!
|
TheHound
Toronto
Full Member
Joined: 08/31/2017
View Profile
 Offline
|
SoundGuy wrote:
So I installed my cover today and as promised took a look at 2017 / 2018 Coachmen Freedom Express models while at the dealership. Exterior graphics are a bit different, exterior trim & skirting is traditional dark brown / black on the 2017s but a startling white on the 2018s, both have LED lighting on the front nose cap. A 2017 Freedom Express can be seen on the right is this pic, 2018s have blue added to the graphics.
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/pLyhsrFl.jpg)
Dealer has two 2017 192RBS units, one was being prepped in the shop as it had been sold, the other was still on the lot and is this one.
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/FuOrurxl.jpg)
The dealer is sold out of 2018 192RBS models and is awaiting more to be delivered so in the 2018 year I took a look at other models in the lineup. A 2018 204RD had a enclosed underbelly but did not have any external fresh water tank support ... not sure why as a 2018 257BHS beside it which also had an enclosed underbelly did have 2 external fresh water tank supports. The 2017 192RBS also had an enclosed underbelly and also did have external fresh water tank support braces, as shown is these two pics ...
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/uCqgxXvl.jpg)
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/ud61ZAvl.jpg)
However, as can be seen these tank support braces are made of really thin metal and are bowed noticeably, no doubt because the trailer has gone through PDI and has had water added to the tank. The 2018 257BHS tank support braces were the same thickness steel but were not bowed so I'd presume this unit had not yet had water in the tank. The other thing I noticed is that while the fresh water tank on my 2014 192RBS is mounted above the axles these tank supports are well forward of the axles so I'd presume the fresh water tank is now mounted further forward on this model than it used to be. This tank support is an improvement but if I were buying one of these units I'd immediately replace those tank supports with much heavier steel, ones that won't bend when the tank is full of water. As for the enclosed underbelly I personally didn't care for it as it means you can't see anything except the gas lines which interestingly run along the underside of the Coroplast. Whether the water pump connects to the bottom of the fresh water tank as it should or still connects to the tank sidewall I can't say because it's hidden by that darned underbelly. Overall my 2014 holds up well against the new ones but I do like the 2017 because it has a full length queen bed, a vent over the main cabin (both of which my '14 doesn't have), the molded front cap, and the dark brown / black exterior trim & skirting which is the same on my '14. Sure don't care for the change to white trim & skirting on the 2018s but of course that's personal taste.
Really appreciate the update. I guess some bracing is better than none lol
|
Ralph Cramden
Not on this rag of a forum
Senior Member
Joined: 06/14/2017
View Profile
|
SoundGuy wrote:
The dealer is sold out of 2018 192RBS models and is awaiting more to be delivered so in the 2018 year I took a look at other models in the lineup. A 2018 204RD had a enclosed underbelly but did not have any external fresh water tank support ... not sure why as a 2018 257BHS beside it which also had an enclosed underbelly did have 2 external fresh water tank supports. The 2017 192RBS also had an enclosed underbelly and also did have external fresh water tank support braces, as shown is these two pics ...
However, as can be seen these tank support braces are made of really thin metal and are bowed noticeably, no doubt because the trailer has gone through PDI and has had water added to the tank. The 2018 257BHS tank support braces were the same thickness steel but were not bowed so I'd presume this unit had not yet had water in the tank. The other thing I noticed is that while the fresh water tank on my 2014 192RBS is mounted above the axles these tank supports are well forward of the axles so I'd presume the fresh water tank is now mounted further forward on this model than it used to be. This tank support is an improvement but if I were buying one of these units I'd immediately replace those tank supports with much heavier steel, ones that won't bend when the tank is full of water. As for the enclosed underbelly I personally didn't care for it as it means you can't see anything. Whether the water pump connects to the bottom of the fresh water tank as it should or still connects to the tank sidewall I can't say because it's hidden by that darned underbelly.
Do you think it may of made more sense if they would of turned those C channels in your pics 90 degrees to use their strength axis? Those pieces look to be what Lippert calls a floater, and made for hanging black and gray tanks. What does Coachmen think will eventually happen to those cheapass Tek screws after a few miles of the tank above the coroplast bouncing up and down. Can you say shear? Sure...... I knew you could LOL.
When it comes to fresh water tank supports, Forest River gets an A+. Not for how great they are installed but for consistency in installing them so chances are at some point they'll fall out.
These following 3 pictures are from a 2017 Rockwood Roo. This happened on the way home from the dealer after the PDI with the tank 3/4 full. I did not drain it as I wanted to see how it towed with water in the tank. The tank is 39 gallons, 28"X7"X53 or 325 lbs full.
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/o61hGhtl.jpg)
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/ItmeBp3l.jpg)
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/NX5E5fVl.jpg)
Those channels that had already started to deflect are a standard Lippert part, PART # 251695.
If you look closely you'll see that the smaller braces under the tank just have a tab that fits in slots punched through the longer angles that span from frame rail to frame rail. One angle was welded in place, the other attached with Tek screws. Not only were the angles themselves too light for the application, but Lippert in their ultimate wisdom, and using their fabrication and engineering expertise, also punched slots in the vertical leg of the main angles. Why do you suppose they bend at that location seen it the pics above. What happens is once they deflect like shown, eventually the cross ties at bottom pop out, and hopefully do not end up in your tire or one of your other tanks. When they are gone the main angles can spread. When the main angles spread pop goes the weasel.....er the water tank.
Here is the fix. Rolled 1-3/4" X 1-3/4" X 3/16" angle for mains and 1" X 1" X 1/8" angles for cross ties with bolted connections everywhere.
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/Lq66XEil.jpg)
Another thing that contributes to the condition are the cheaply constructed tanks they use. In the pic above notice how the tank from Rockwood (on right) is deflecting all over the place when empty while the one on the left (added by me) does not. Its made by Alpha Systems and is also 39 gallons. In the pic below what looks like the stronger, better constructed tank? The one in front is the tank I added, the one in the rear is the Forest River tank.
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/QKmrodJl.jpg)
That all took place in April of 2016. They still are using this s##t to this day. If you have an enclosed underbelly it may behoove you to take a look. I will not get into posting up about the fight I took on with Forest River and Lippert over this foolishness, as I don't want to get my blood pressure up.
* This post was
last
edited 12/09/17 06:24pm by Ralph Cramden *
View edit history
|
mountainkowboy
Socal/NE Oregon
Senior Member
Joined: 09/20/2004
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
That looks like the same brace I've seen on the 192RBS, but there is only 1 brace on them.
We never got down to see the one near us, the fires were pretty close and we had some family get evacuated, and so on..........
Chuck & Ruth with 4-legged Molly
2007 Tiffin Allegro 30DA
2011 Ford Ranger
1987 HD FLHTP
|
babock
Los Angeles, CA
Senior Member
Joined: 12/18/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
My 233RBS has those same wimpy supports. I am going to upgrade mine to be heavier.
|
|
|
SoundGuy
S Ontario
Senior Member
Joined: 02/11/2015
View Profile
|
babock wrote:My 233RBS has those same wimpy supports. I am going to upgrade mine to be heavier.
Shortly after we purchased our 2014 Freedom Express 192RBS my dealer, at my request, installed these heavy steel support braces under the fresh water tank and as shown in this pic they're still perfectly straight after 5 seasons of use, haven't bent at all, so obviously support the weight of a full tank just fine. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/w1setKCl.jpg)
I'd do the same with a new 2017 or 2018 Freedom Express as there's no way those factory supports are at all sufficient. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/mad.gif "mad")
FWIW, my dealer whom I know quite well mentioned that on his most recent factory tour he noticed that fresh water tanks being installed these days now have even much thinner walls than used to be the case, no doubt to control costs and reduce weight. While these tanks do still serve the purpose the downside is they'll sag noticeably when filled with water if not properly supported and although I don't know this for a fact I suspect this is a much more common problem across the entire RV industry than just with the Coachmen Freedom Express line. Unfortunate to say but if we were in the market for a new camper I'd be looking at fresh water tank support, or lack thereof, very carefully regardless of the brand of trailer. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/frown.gif "frown")
* This post was
edited 12/10/17 05:15am by SoundGuy *
2012 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab
2014 Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS
2003 Fleetwood Yuma * 2008 K-Z Spree 240BH-LX
2007 TrailCruiser C21RBH * 2000 Fleetwood Santa Fe
1998 Jayco 10UD * 1969 Coleman CT380
|
Bols2DawaLL
SW. Ontario
Full Member
Joined: 08/24/2016
View Profile
|
[quote=SoundGuy]
Shortly after we purchased our 2014 Freedom Express 192RBS my dealer, at my request, installed these heavy steel support braces under the fresh water tank Quote:
Soundguy , did the dealer have to have these fabricated or are they an aftermarket part ?
|
SoundGuy
S Ontario
Senior Member
Joined: 02/11/2015
View Profile
|
Fresh water tank supports on my 192RBS were custom fabricated by my dealer's welder. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile") I think if I were buying a new 192RBS with those flimsy factory tank supports I'd replace them with heavier steel supports that can support the weight without bending and bolt them in place.
|
drsteve
Michigan
Senior Member
Joined: 06/09/2006
View Profile
Offline
|
The Coachmen in my sig, purchased in July, has the same issue with the fresh tank. Fill it up and watch the enclosed underbelly sag.
I will address that problem in the spring, when I pull the coroplast to figure out why the floor creaks and cracks and flexes when I walk past the kitchen counter. Coachmen customer service, of course, insists this is all normal. The dealer I purchased from inspires little confidence, having been unable to correctly install a slide topper (seriously), so I will be doing the work myself. If I'm lucky, maybe Forest River will agree to cover the cost of whatever materials are needed to repair my still-under-warranty TT.
2006 Silverado 1500HD Crew Cab 2WD 6.0L 3.73 8600 GVWR
2018 Coachmen Catalina Legacy Edition 223RBS
1991 Palomino Filly PUP
|
SoundGuy
S Ontario
Senior Member
Joined: 02/11/2015
View Profile
|
drsteve wrote:The Coachmen in my sig, purchased in July, has the same issue with the fresh tank. Fill it up and watch the enclosed underbelly sag.
I will address that problem in the spring, when I pull the coroplast to figure out why the floor creaks and cracks and flexes when I walk past the kitchen counter.
Don't know whether this will help but I found with my own 192RBS that it wasn't the floor per se that was creaking but the kitchen galley cabinet that would flex slightly when walking near it, causing a bit of a creak as it rubbed against the floor. My solution was to run a lot more screws through the cabinet and into the floor. FWIW, when walking through a new 192RBS on the dealer lot it did the same thing - creaked a bit near the kitchen galley. Ideally the manufacturer would have used some sort of rubber gasket between the kitchen galley and the floor but screwing it down more tightly seemed to work pretty well for me.
|
|
|
