SoundGuy
S Ontario
Senior Member
Joined: 02/11/2015
View Profile
|
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:Absorbed glass mat batteries were sooooooooooooooooo temperature sensitive, they would not exist. The manufacturers would have gone out of business decades ago.
East Penn AGM Temperature Adjusted Charging Voltages
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/qkEHC3Zl.png)
Interesting - at least a volt difference in temps many of us would expect to camp in. But hey, what would East Penn know? ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/awink.gif "awink")
|
MEXICOWANDERER
las peñas, michoacan, mexico
Senior Member
Joined: 06/01/2007
View Profile
 Offline
|
This thread serves to remind me why so many OEMs demand their products be "push button no think"
IF IF IF IF IF
Absorbed glass mat batteries were sooooooooooooooooo temperature sensitive, they would not exist. The manufacturers would have gone out of business decades ago.
And yet MOST AGM batteries spend their life underhood in bake oven conditions subjected to pure S&M charge regimens dictated by alternator voltage regulators.
AGMs are FLAGSHIP PRODUCTS. Pure Ego on parade. They demand the very finest lifespan and performance figures they can achieve. So manufacturers put forth maintenance declarations that are stricter than the morals of an 80 year old spinster.
Can you blame them?
For a decent COMPARISON between batteries in order to glimpse perspective of weight, amp hours and CCA refer to the following PDF download manual from Lifeline. Compare with your choice.
Lifeline does not try and represent their AGM a being anything other than a true profoundly cyclable AGM
http://lifelinebatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/manual.pdf
The DEKA is a good battery. Buy it. Install it. Do the best you RATIONALLY can with voltage temperature. Then enjoy the battery.
Sufficient recharging amperage is 100 times as important than tweaking two tenths of an absorb or float volt.
Or is this maelstrom of confusion/perplexity/ambiguity going to continue on?
|
DiskDoctr
PA
Senior Member
Joined: 05/29/2006
View Profile
|
red31 wrote:DiskDoctr wrote:
2. Discharge rate is listed as "1500 cycles at 80%" A true deep cycle battery has acceptable repeated discharge of 50% without shortening the life of the battery.
None of these Trojans are TRUE now that I know the definition! Sure looks like there is some sort of cycle life at any DoD
![[image]](http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y490/buokis/battery/batt_zps569e3991.jpg)
Let me clarify my statement (which someone will likely state better).
A true deep cycle battery will not be harmed or have its life significantly decreased due to regular 50% discharging. I suppose it is okay for them to have LONGER life if they are discharged to a lesser degree, though I do not know at what levels they should be?
Maybe someone else can comment on your chart and what implication, if any, it has in this context?
Nice chart, thanks for posting it ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
|
DiskDoctr
PA
Senior Member
Joined: 05/29/2006
View Profile
|
MrWizard wrote:Seems like he was in CYA mode
Unfortunately, I think that was the case. Especially since I called back and got the REAL SCOOP on it all from a much better rep named Jason ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
Here is the info, suitable for broadcast. 100% accurate, take it to the bank.
1. Duracell GC2 (215ah) and EGC2(230ah) batteries are Sams Club and Batteries Plus are DEKA batteries and should all have East Penn Manufacturing on the labels. (Internal EP designations are GC10, GC15, GC25, based upon capacity, but we know them as GC-2, which is the BCI size designation). They are NOT Trojans.
2. Camping World is starting to get the Deka batteries, which are initially arriving as DEKA branded and shortly as ROADHAWK brands. This is a CHANGE from the Exide mfg batteries CW handles now. Opens up ability for end users to have NATIONWIDE WARRANTY services as RV travelers.
3. DC31DT is true deep cycle, designed for 50% discharge levels. I am waiting for "something in writing" to confirm estimated number of 50% cycles.
4. East Penn *does* have and use email, contrary to the earlier contrary rep's very odd comments
Fortunately EP has more than one person answering phones. One gave a very poor representation of his company and was of no help to the customer. The other was quite excellent and makes his company proud, providing excellent service to the customer.
Moral of the story: Got a useless person on the phone? Hang up and call back. Roll the dice, it can only get better
So that's it. No need to "agonize" (great description of my predicament) over 12v Deka vs someone else's 6v batteries. Going to head to Sams Club this week and pick up either 2 or 4 GC2 6v batteries.
How many? Hmmm....
The inverter arrived. Going to go open the box and see what condition it is in.
|
red31
Dallas
Senior Member
Joined: 08/04/2008
View Profile
Offline
|
DiskDoctr wrote:
2. Discharge rate is listed as "1500 cycles at 80%" A true deep cycle battery has acceptable repeated discharge of 50% without shortening the life of the battery.
None of these Trojans are TRUE now that I know the definition! Sure looks like there is some sort of cycle life at any DoD
|
|
|
MrWizard
Traveling
Moderator
Joined: 06/27/2004
View Profile
Offline
|
Email leaves an electronic trail
Fax does not
A person can deny sending a fax, or claim it was sent, not their fault you did not receive it
A fax can be tied to a particular office aka phone number
An email IS tied directly to a specific person
Seems like he was in CYA mode
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !
....
Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s
|
DiskDoctr
PA
Senior Member
Joined: 05/29/2006
View Profile
|
Let me share the details of a telephone conversation I just had with Tom in customer service at East Penn Mfg.
My questions summary:
1. DC31DT is a True Deep Cycle or hybrid, considering it is listed as "Marine" which is normally used as a distinction between True Deep Cycle batteries and a combinations deep cycle/starting battery.
2. Discharge rate is listed as "1500 cycles at 80%" A true deep cycle battery has acceptable repeated discharge of 50% without shortening the life of the battery.
3. Spec sheet says, "Note: The three "DC" deep cycle part numbers above include double insulated glass mat separators." Using the term "glass mat" now makes one think AGM technology.
Responses:
1. Whose part number is that, where did you find it? (he transposed the beginning of the part number to 31DCDT). Seems odd he isn't familiar with his own company's model number method, but okay. It is a true deep cycle. 'Marine' means it can be used for boat applications, like trolling motors and fish finders.
2. First response was it is an 80% battery. Then he said, no I think that is incorrect.
3. It is not AGM battery, but he did find and confirm that same statement is on their current product sheet as well.
I told Tom that not only would I like the information, I would ask for it in a formal manner so I could quote it online and clear up any confusion.
He said he'll talk with someone else, as he has never had such a high tech question before. He said he could Fax it to me.
I asked if he could email it. "Would you like me to fax it to you?" was the non-answer response. A little strange. Can you scan and email it to me, we have limited fax capabilities here. "I can put it in the mail to you"
I asked if he had a scanner, maybe could scan and email it. "Would you like me to fax it to you" was the response. Very odd.
I said, "Tom, if you're telling me you do not have any scanning or email capabilities, it gives a bad impression. I start thinking 1982 technology there. Do you have a scanner?"
Response: "Would you like me to fax it to you"
Okay, thank you, is there someone else I could talk to? Sure.
Turns out Mary, supervisor of customer service is in a meeting until this afternoon. He offered to allow me to leave a message. I told him I'd rather call back.
Where to go from here? Well, I'll call back and talk with Mary. Tom was polite, just not really familiar with batteries and I guess email is a bit out of his comfort zone. Seems odd, but I'm guessing he deals mostly with warranty work, shipments, orders, or whatever else.
I thought it odd there wasn't any offer to speak with someone more technical, but I didn't ask, either.
Shame they are 4.5hrs from me. I'd probably just stop in and clear it all up in about 10 mins.
Why is this important? Well, if we build a battery bank out of these batteries, we're going to stick with the exact same brand and model forever. Not like buying a car battery, where you are only stuck with something until the next change and can always just buy ONE if you don't like it. Buying 2-4 of these at $120/ea adds up quickly.
I can't help but think of the phrase, "Just the fax{sic}" ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/tongue.gif "tongue")
Stay tuned for the actual, definitive results.
Maybe I should just drive the nearly 3hrs round trip to Sams Club and buy 4 6v GC2 and be done with it.
|
SoundGuy
S Ontario
Senior Member
Joined: 02/11/2015
View Profile
|
To the OP ...
FYI here's an East Penn VRLA Tech Manual you might want to read through if you're at all interested in EP non-flooded batteries. It's pretty clear that temperature corrected charging (which your new PD9270 does not offer) is a requirement as far as East Penn is concerned. Personally, I'd be looking for similar documentation that relates to any other make / model of battery you may be interested in before making any battery purchase. For example, AFAIK Trojan calls for a bulk charge rate of 14.8 volts which your new PD doesn't do, in which case you would have wanted to buy the 14.8 volt version.
|
westend
Shorewood, MN
Senior Member
Joined: 11/17/2011
View Profile
Offline
|
Your usage, as explained, doesn't seem to need the attributes of a 12V battery, i.e. holding higher voltage for high amperage loads. Your largest load will be a coffee maker or microwave and they aren't long in duration. Of course, voltage drop can be ameliorated entirely by having large battery capacity.
If the Crown batteries referenced earlier are 70 lbs and can be had for $120, that would be a good purchase. I have the Sam's Club 6V's and also, 3--Deka AGM batteries. All are doing fine but Crown is noted for quality and durability.
'03 F-250 4x4 CC
'71 Starcraft Wanderstar -- The Cowboy/Hilton
|
SoundGuy
S Ontario
Senior Member
Joined: 02/11/2015
View Profile
|
DiskDoctr wrote:So a PD9270 converter with pendant is a good choice/
Depends, on what you intend to charge with it. The PD9270, like most other converter / chargers, doesn't offer temperature corrected charging so you shouldn't expect to use it for maintaining any batteries the manufacturer insists must be TC charged, which would include AGM and GEL batteries manufactured by East Penn.
East Penn Group 27 AGM
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/p9FvMpil.jpg)
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/j4ZMXxml.jpg)
OR like many pundits here on the forum you can ignore this East Penn warning from those who actually designed & manufactured these batteries, insist it doesn't matter, and replace those expensive AGMs sooner rather than later. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/rolleyes.gif "rolleyes") There's no magic to this - the "best" charger is one that "best" matches the charging characteristics of the batteries you intend to charge with it. Perhaps sufficient reason for many to stick with good ol' flooded which are much more tolerant of differing charging profiles.
|
|
|
|
