wowens79
Georgia
Senior Member
Joined: 01/05/2015
View Profile
 Offline
|
A lot depends on how many people, and what you do when you camp. We are a family of 4 with 2 being teenagers. We typically carry 4 kayaks, and/or 4 mountain bikes on racks in the truck. We couldn't carry all that with a fithwheel, unless we went to a toy hauler.
Think about what you would want to take with you, and how you would pack it. We had narrowed down to 2 TT's, with one leading the way. In my mind I started packing all out our stuff, and realized that the #2 on our list had one more outside storage compartment, and that swayed us. I'm really glad I thought through that.
2022 Ford F-350 7.3l
2002 Chevy Silverado 1500HD 6.0l 268k miles (retired)
2016 Heritage Glen 29BH
2003 Flagstaff 228D Pop Up
|
DallasSteve
Texas
Senior Member
Joined: 05/28/2015
View Profile
Offline
|
I'm getting a lot of thoughtful, interesting replies. Thank you.
Horton, you said the Hensley hitch puts the pivot point further forward than a 5th wheel. How can that be? I looked at a photo of the hitch and it doesn't look significantly different than other WD hitches, to my untrained eye. I was trying to price it and it looks like the one for big trailers is around $3,000. Is that correct?
2022 JAYCO JAY FLIGHT SLX 8 324BDS
2022 FORD F-250 XL CREW CAB 4X4
All my exes live in Texas, that's why I live in an RV
.jpg)
|
rhagfo
Portland, OR
Senior Member
Joined: 07/06/2012
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
wowens79 wrote:A lot depends on how many people, and what you do when you camp. We are a family of 4 with 2 being teenagers. We typically carry 4 kayaks, and/or 4 mountain bikes on racks in the truck. We couldn't carry all that with a fithwheel, unless we went to a toy hauler.
Think about what you would want to take with you, and how you would pack it. We had narrowed down to 2 TT's, with one leading the way. In my mind I started packing all out our stuff, and realized that the #2 on our list had one more outside storage compartment, and that swayed us. I'm really glad I thought through that.
Well I will say excuses not reasons.
Bikes Pin box bike rack, LB TV no issues with four bikes up front.
The kayaks likely are already on a roof rack, good place for them. now you have the bed for firewood, generator, etc. that and fivers have a huge basement.
To each their own, but with a few exceptions " loosing the Bed" is not a big deal. I will grant Dutchman an exception, as his livelihood is in the back of the TV, not so much camping stuff.
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#
"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"
|
horton333
Autora (Ontario)
Senior Member
Joined: 11/08/2006
View Profile
Offline
|
DallasSteve wrote:I'm getting a lot of thoughtful, interesting replies. Thank you.
Horton, you said the Hensley hitch puts the pivot point further forward than a 5th wheel. How can that be? I looked at a photo of the hitch and it doesn't look significantly different than other WD hitches, to my untrained eye. I was trying to price it and it looks like the one for big trailers is around $3,000. Is that correct?
It moves the *effective* pivot point ahead. It does that with a sloppy coupling that moves side to side which changes the angle of the connection. It's difficult to describe without a diagram how that moves the effective pivot, and they seem to have removed the diagram from their website.
There are some words and a video, which does not help much on their website. I suspect (hope) that what they did was move the diagram to what they call their white paper which is linked at the bottom of this page.
They are expensive, but they are only required for vehicles with poor overhang ratios (the longer the wheelbase is compared to how far behind the rear wheels the pivot point makes that ratio better) pulling longer trailers, like SUVs which can pull a significantly longer trailer with one than without. Don't forget to include the $10,000, or much more sometimes, you pay for the larger truck required to pull a 5th wheel in an economic comparison and assuming you actually need a Hensley class hitch. A Hensley hitch is typically more of a nice to have them a requirement, unless you were pushing the boundary as I was when I had a significantly longer toyhauler than my current trailer, a hitch weight that varied considerably trip to trip, and the Explorer with its poor overhang ratio. At 35' you are looking at a pickup truck so unless you want to pay for that last little bit of perfection it's not required.
......................................
Ford Explorer or Chrysler 300C to tow with.
Tracer Air 238 to be towed.
Triumph Thunderbird Sport - with the toy-hauler gone it's at home.
Retired very early and loving it.
|
rhagfo
Portland, OR
Senior Member
Joined: 07/06/2012
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
horton333 wrote:Walaby wrote:My friend traded his TT in for 5er. He says gas mileage IMPROVED by almost 2MPG (Ford Diesel). Towing experience, he says is better with 5er and felt more stable in windy conditions.
Mike
That extra height increases wind drag and at a 4 times rate, and drag is the main determinate of fuel efficiency at constant speed. The second is weight on hills or accelerating, and being taller the fifth wheel also tends to weigh more per unit length for most of its length. Perhaps he changed to the diesel at the same time as he bought the fifth wheel.... about the only science that could explain that huge fuel use improvement observation. I guess he could also have converted to one of those 200 mph carburetors, but those are scarse now and also difficult to retrofit on a diesel. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/awink.gif "awink")
Perhaps also he had a terrible setup on his earlier trailer, there are some out there, but for equal length trailers, as under discussion, the wind on the extra height will have even more than 4 times the sideways pushing effect (not only does the wind's force go up 4 times that extra force is applied farther above the axle and so has much greater effect on stability). The higher trailer was aleady less stable sideways to begin with given the higher center of gravity, so less resistant to the push. The fifth wheels often have more robust axles which helps a bit and the length is measured differently which adds a bit of complexity to these generalizations and the "equal length" assumption, but neither is going to compensate for the huge math disadvantage to a side wind in any typical case of 35' trailers.
Well Horton, I think a couple think a couple points you miss are that as a whole fivers are heaver the the equivalent TT that helps make them more stable, most of that weight is in the frame which is relatively low. I have personally towed next to the Pacific Ocean with a very strong on shore wind 40+ mph with gust to at least 50 mph, never noticed. Never notice a passing semi either.
The biggest reason is the physical pint of attachment is right over the rear axle.
While the Hensley is a great design and works well, it has its limits, once the angle between the TV and trailer gets past a certain point the virtual pivot point starts moving back quickly. Weigh a fiver that point never moves.
|
|
|
dodge guy
Bartlett IL
Senior Member
Joined: 03/23/2004
View Profile
Offline
|
bfast54 wrote:wing_zealot wrote:You can pull a lot bigger TT with any given truck then a 5er.
PLEASE--------Enlighten us .....????????????... ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/scratchead.gif "scratchead")
Is this based on your VAST EXPERIENCE.......
Or a "made up fact"...?????????........... ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/doh.gif "doh")
I believe he is talking about the weight part of it. 12% TW for a TT vs 25% for a 5'er.
Wife Kim
Son Brandon 17yrs
Daughter Marissa 16yrs
Dog Bailey
12 Forest River Georgetown 350TS Hellwig sway bars, BlueOx TrueCenter stabilizer
13 Ford Explorer Roadmaster Stowmaster 5000, VIP Tow>
A bad day camping is
better than a good day at work!
|
et2
MI.
Senior Member
Joined: 10/31/2007
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
My personal experience started with travel trailers, then to fivers and now a MH. All of them required some tweaking to get them to perform "better". I don't care what TT you have but weight distribution and side load buffer would be required on most vehicles. One key is making sure you have a great tow vehicle capable of handling your TT. Make sure it's loaded properly. All our travel trailers setup right always had more sway from wind and pushing from other passing traffic.
Someone mention the distance from the hitch on a bumper pull to the rear wheels on the tow vehicle. It makes a difference in the stability, especially if loaded wrong or lack of the above mentioned added features. One thing with our RV adventure was as we moved up in style the truck got bigger too.
Worrying about the space in the bed is ridiculous as your safety should be your main concern. Besides on a fiver setup you can set it up to remove the hitch if not being used. More thought should be placed on getting the best vehicle for what your towing.
Now the fiver, yep, it's gonna chuck like crazy if you don't set it up right too. Even then you still get a little. Get the right hitch and pin box setup out of the gate. The traffic pushing you around in a fiver is way less noticeable compared to a travel trailer. It's more stable due to the weight over the axles.
Now the motorhome ( which we finally have a DP) doesn't experience any of the issues with the TT or Fiver. But weighing the coach and adjusting tire pressures correctly makes a world of difference on its ride. I never owned a front engine MH but listen to many complain about issue getting them under control. If you go this route I think your best bet is a diesel pusher as they seem to be more stable, less noise in the driving area, and many more suspension and driving benefits. BUT ... yes you can improve these too beyond the proper inflation. Our new coach shocks jarred us to death. We put new shocks on the first year with way better performance. Also a add on was Blue Ox true center to take away any steering correction input by me while driving out of the steering wheel ( road crown, wind, etc).
So looking back, I wish we bought a motorhome a long time ago. But the biggest thing with a TT and Fiver is getting a superb towing platform. Our last truck was a dually long bed ( which bed length is important too) Dodge diesel. It even had a 60 gallon transfer tank in the bed. I never had problems worrying about room in the bed. There wasn't anything in there while towing anyway. Believe it or not, if you do have stuff in the bed while towing a fiver you better tie it down. You wouldn't believe the suction force and stuff that will get sucked out of your bed with the fiver attached.
|
fulltimedaniel
US Canada and Mexico
Senior Member
Joined: 12/27/2016
View Profile
Offline
|
DallasSteve wrote:I've been researching travel trailers and I'm not sure yet whether I want a fifth wheel or a bumper pull trailer. I've read more than once that a fifth wheel is easier to handle/more stable on the road. I've heard others claim there's not much difference if they are set up correctly. Part of my hesitation on going with a fifth wheel is losing the truck bed, the additional tow capacity needed, the additional height, the additional cost. But they are nice. And I will probably put several thousand miles per year on it so doing that with more tranquility would be nice.
Can some of you who have pulled large trailers (over 35 feet) of both varieties give me your opinion about the difference in feel on the road?
(Moderator, if this would be better under General RV or somewhere else feel free to move it)
Thanks
Steve
Steve: I think you may be overemphasizing the stability issue. Both types of trailers are very stable if loaded and balanced and TOWED correctly.
Consider this:
A fifth wheel trailer:
Has a much higher profile making it more susceptable to side winds and head winds. There is a lot more sail there than with the average Bumper pull TT of the same size.
Is heavier than the same size bumper pull due to its additional steel needed for it's step frame.
You lose your truck bed (As has been mentioned by others)
You MUST buy an expensive fifth wheel for your truck. NO such hardware is required or even necessary for the bumper pull. Now I know there are those that say you need all kinds of expensive anti sway apparatus; the truth is you don;t. I have pulled my 33 foot TT 22 thousand miles in the last 11 months which includes two trips to Alaska. In the last two years I have pulled it well over 30k miles. I have never in any weather conditions needed anything like a WD or Anti sway system. It is HOW you DRIVE the trailer not the accessories that counts.
If your TV is properly sized for the trailer and most 250/2500 series HD with tow package will handle either just fine. My truck and trailer weigh a combined total of almost 17K. My truck sits level when hooked up and handles great.
What the decision really comes down to I think is the floorplan and the loss of your pick up bed. Stability isnt really a factor.
Good luck with whatever you decide and have fun.
|
RCMAN46
NorthWest
Senior Member
Joined: 02/24/2008
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
|
A travel trailer is inherently unstable.
If a travel trailer was inherently stable then sway control equipment should not be necessary.
A 5th wheel is inherently stable as there is no sway control needed or available as far I know.
|
Snowman9000
IL
Senior Member
Joined: 01/07/2009
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
|
^^ What he said. Towing a fiver is a very stable experience.
Currently RV-less but not done yet.
|
|
|
|
