PawPaw_n_Gram
On the Road Somewhere
Senior Member
Joined: 02/06/2012
View Profile
 Offline
|
Re - loss of the pickup bed with a fifth wheel hitch setup.
If you have a TT - the lack of storage in the 'basement' is going to mean you need a cover for the truck bed and use the bed of the truck to store all the stuff you would store in a fifth wheel basement.
You really don't lose much usable space/ volume. However, you are going to transfer a ton or so of weight from the truck bed to the 5th wheel basement. Make very sure any 5er you buy has the available carrying capacity to handle the extra weight. Also - don't completely trust the stickers on the rig. Weigh the 5er empty, then weight it after getting it full. So you know your exact numbers - not some manufacture brochure numbers.
RE towing characteristics - all trailers sway. TT, 5er, 18 wheeler, etc. When the wind pushes the rear of the trailer, a fifth wheel puts the force of the hitch of the trailer on the truck over the rear axle. That minimizes the impact of swaying on the tow vehicle. A proper hitch setup on a TT also minimizes the impact of swaying on the tow vehicle. Just be aware that the force pushing the rear of the TV is several feet behind the rear axle with a TT.
Re: Height - fifth wheels are higher, and they put more square feet of sail area on the front. Sail area is the biggest impact on fuel mileage. Be aware that a 1 mph difference is close to 10% for most people. Slowing from 65 to 55 will also likely give a person a 10-15% increase in fuel mileage.
Parking area - height issues. Been the hardest thing to teach my wife to watch the overhead while I'm backing into a parking space around trees. A 5er does require a more vigilant approach to parking behavior. Also - MEASURE your rig. Forget the MFR numbers - get out and have someone help you actually measure the highest points on the 5er while hooked up. Don't assume the manufacturer numbers are correct. KNOW your exact height.
Convenience - Most folks find a 5er better for living than a TT. We live full-time in a 36', three slide TT. But the limited overhead does also limit our storage capacity. I'm also always hitting my head on the interior edges of the slides. A 5er slides are going to be higher than your head most of the time. A TT slides are likely going to put the sharp edge about mid-forehead high.
As I mentioned above - a TT has a very limited external storage capacity. A fifth wheel has more. But you can overload both very easily.
Tow Vehicle - frankly, after a few years - I'm tired of trying to maneuver around a big pickup truck in cities which seem to assume the longest vehicle is going to be less than 16' feet long. Or narrower than 6 feet. My 2500 tow vehicle is 22 feet long, and 8'9 3/4" wide to the outside of the mirrors.
Setup/ tear down convenience - I WANT a six point auto leveling system. So bad I can taste it. The key to minimizing trailer movement while parked is to get weight off the springs. Auto leveling systems do that much better than any manual system. They also cut down your setup / tear down time. There are some auto leveling systems for TT, but most TT don't have the frame elements available to install such a system. A great many 5th wheel rigs are available with auto-leveling systems standard.
5th wheels are also taller in one critical area - the steps into the rig. Most 5th wheels I've seen average a floor height from 12 to 18 inches higher than a TT. If you or the DW has knee problems or other mobility issues - that might be a problem.
Also the steps to the bedroom / front living area of a 5th wheel can be a problem for some folks. Among the folks in my home Good Sam group - five couples have sold their fifth wheel in the past two years - three going to a TT, one to a Class B, the other to a Class A. All because of mobility issues and the internal steps in the fifth wheel.
We even have one couple where the husband only can climb the steps to the bedroom once a day. They have a rig with a mid-bathroom just so he doesn't have to climb the steps during most of the day. As much as they love their 43' 5er, he is getting close to the point of either trading it for a flat floor rig, or living full-time in the living room/ kitchen and half-bath.
Full-Time 2014 - ????
“Not all who wander are lost.”
"You were supposed to turn back at the last street."
2012 Ram 2500 Mega Cab
2014 Flagstaff 832IKBS TT
|
Allworth
Orlando, FL
Senior Member
Joined: 10/10/2006
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
I generally agree with PPnG. Also I thing Horton may be using "alternate physics" in his wind analysis, since no one seems to experience this effect in the real world.
Formerly posting as "littleblackdog"
Martha, Allen, & Blackjack
2006 Chevy 3500 D/A LB SRW, RVND 7710
Previously: 2008 Titanium 30E35SA. Currently no trailer due to age & mobility problems. Very sad!
"Real Jeeps have round headlights"
|
bfast54
Traverse City ,Mi.
Senior Member
Joined: 12/24/2003
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
Well I'm afraid I can only talk practical real-world experience------ as a delivery driver for one of the large manufacturers---- I've hauled every type of trailer you can imagine --And I own a fifth wheel trailer!!!
Absolutely no question the best travel trailers to tow are the ones with the wide stance in other words a space between the axles ....(the passport brand is the one that I'm kind of referring to)
The ones with the wheels close together in the travel trailer towed the worst....!!!!!
I had one large name brand travel trailer that I hauled to Pennsylvania( from Goshen) and I couldn't wait to get that thing off the back of my truck !!!!!!!!!
No matter where I set up the sway control...No matter how I had it ....it Swayed like crazy if I got over 55 miles an hour.... I was never so glad to get that thing off my truck..
You name it,I have towed it.....................
In reference to the travel trailer owner who says you need to spend thousands of dollars to get rid of the "CHUCKING"......BALONEY.... I have a heavy duty hitch I firmly believe in it I have no Chucking issues...(I used to have a REESE)...Got rid of it.
I have a "Tri-Fold " cover so When I don't have the trailer attached (5th wheel)...then I just close the cover when I'm hauling a regular travel trailer I keep the cover closed.
Far and away....5th easier to tow........have had MANY white knuckle TT experiences.
There are other professional drivers on the forums also --maybe one of them will jump in.
Having experienced Towing all kinds of different trailers The 5er is the most relaxing experience and with the basement storage...and what not going for it...... it's hands-down winner for me anyway.
For my particular thing-- but a lot depends on what you're going to do with it.
Hope this helps......P.M. me if any other questions.
2000 Ford SuperDuty F-350 Powerstroke,Dually.C.C.,.The Tow Monster
2005 Open Road 357RLDS
Prodigy Brake Controller">
Honda EU3000is Generator
Raytek ,,Garmin 7735/GPS
Doran Mfg-RV360-TPMS
B&W/Companion
Rally's attended so far-21
My Blog
Good Sam Member
|
horton333
Autora (Ontario)
Senior Member
Joined: 11/08/2006
View Profile
Offline
|
Allworth wrote:I generally agree with PPnG. Also I thing Horton may be using "alternate physics" in his wind analysis, since no one seems to experience this effect in the real world.
It's not my physics, and of course people do experience it. Does everyone acknowledge it, that seems to vary.
......................................
Ford Explorer or Chrysler 300C to tow with.
Tracer Air 238 to be towed.
Triumph Thunderbird Sport - with the toy-hauler gone it's at home.
Retired very early and loving it.
|
rhagfo
Portland, OR
Senior Member
Joined: 07/06/2012
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
horton333 wrote:Allworth wrote:I generally agree with PPnG. Also I thing Horton may be using "alternate physics" in his wind analysis, since no one seems to experience this effect in the real world.
It's not my physics, and of course people do experience it. Does everyone acknowledge it, that seems to vary.
Ity is what you left out in your physics, the fact that with a TT the force of the trailer is applied 3' to 4' behind the TV rear axle, where with a 5er it is applied at the axle zero leverage on the direction of the TV.
Fuel mileage, well many that have switch from TT to 5er with same TV, report either no change or improvement in fuel mileage, with a heaver trailer. This is likely has to do with better overall aerodynamics, yes a 5er is taller, but the front is closer to the TV cab than with a TT.
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#
"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"
|
|
|
wing_zealot
East of the Mississippi
Senior Member
Joined: 12/31/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
You can pull a lot bigger TT with any given truck then a 5er.
|
Nicholsfamily05
Brooklyn
Senior Member
Joined: 02/14/2015
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
wing_zealot wrote:You can pull a lot bigger TT with any given truck then a 5er.
I'll take a 40' fifth wheel over a 40' TT any day. I wouldn't want that thing wagging at the back of my truck no matter what size truck I have!!
2016 Ram 3500 4x4 Big Horn Crew Cab, SRW. Cummins Turbo Diesel Automatic 68RFE Trans
50 gallon diesel Transfer Flow tank with the Traxx 3 system.
2017 Sierra FLIK 5th Wheel
42' Front Livingroom, 15K
Hydraulic level up system
|
horton333
Autora (Ontario)
Senior Member
Joined: 11/08/2006
View Profile
Offline
|
rhagfo wrote:
Ity is what you left out in your physics, the fact that with a TT the force of the trailer is applied 3' to 4' behind the TV rear axle, where with a 5er it is applied at the axle zero leverage on the direction of the TV.
Fuel mileage, well many that have switch from TT to 5er with same TV, report either no change or improvement in fuel mileage, with a heaver trailer. This is likely has to do with better overall aerodynamics, yes a 5er is taller, but the front is closer to the TV cab than with a TT.
For the first point it was not mentioned as it's not relevant to stability, which is the subject. While yes the TT will provide some longitudinal attempt at rotation that the 5th wheel won't see it is only a small fraction of a much smaller force with the TT. It will feed back through the steering and some may interpret this as less stability it is in fact not reflective of what may put the trailer on its shiny side for any proper setup. If this is a perceived problem you can buy hitches like the Hensley hitch which moves the effective pivot point even farther forward than the fifth wheel pivot point is. Mine I calculate at almost a foot in front of the rear axle, as opposed to an inch for a fifth wheel.
There are people who slalom race trailers, some for fun and some to test hitch setups. As with car racing lower is more stable, indeed I notice some don't even allow/try fifth wheels as while a TT can get it's wheel in the air and still recover, good luck with that and a fifth wheel. And thats without wind.
For the second point even an extremely aerodynamic trailer like the Airstream only reduces the barn door like drag by 20%. Those extra 3 extra feet or whatever of a fifth wheel are adding far more drag than that, so I'll put this one in the brand loyalty category till I see a controlled environment measurement that shows that better fuel economy. It's like my dad who always claimed 20 mpg with his 74 Newport, I never saw anything that like that when I measured it when I got it.
Over half of the aerodynamic improvement of the Airstream is from the *backend* shape, I haven't noticed many 5th wheels with any attempt at fixing that backend turbulence. Do you have an example of one with a streamlined backend other than slowly lowering the roof, because you need that you have any chance to support your assumption of less drag.
I think there is a lot of 'brand loyalty' going on here....
|
wing_zealot
East of the Mississippi
Senior Member
Joined: 12/31/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
Nicholsfamily05 wrote:wing_zealot wrote:You can pull a lot bigger TT with any given truck then a 5er.
I'll take a 40' fifth wheel over a 40' TT any day. I wouldn't want that thing wagging at the back of my truck no matter what size truck I have!! If your pulling a trailer thats wagging then You don't know what you're doing.
|
Walaby
Georgia
Senior Member
Joined: 11/10/2014
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
horton333 wrote:Perhaps he changed to the diesel at the same time as he bought the fifth wheel..
Nope... same truck. Only thing I can say is maybe something with aerodynamics with the front of 5er being right behind cab vs front of TT 4 ft or so behind truck. He was getting around 10.5-11 mpg before, and now he's almost 12-12.5. Not saying the TT and 5er were the same length.
Mike
Im Mike Willoughby, and I approve this message.
2017 Ram 3500 CTD (aka FRAM)
2019 GrandDesign Reflection 367BHS
|
|
|
