Strawfoot
Flagstaff, AZ, USA
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sirdrakejr wrote:If we were always expected to "just accept a lower standard" we would not had the likes of the Wright brothers, Samuel Morse, Edison and others that have made the US what it is. I refuse to believe we have reached the time when we have to "accept a lower standard". Not me! Not in my lifetime!
Frank
I think you've badly missed the point. You can still wave your flag and be a proud American but you/me/we need to act a bit more responsibly. The "not in my lifetime" attitude isn't what gets us out of the current situation. It is what got us into it. If everyone keeps denying that there is an ever increasing demand for petroleum and a finite supply, we will get deeper into trouble. The same holds true for people who know there is a steadily increasing demand for a limited supply of crude oil, but don't wish to curb their use or conserve in any way.
If you are an old-timer as most here are, you'd remember what you were asked to do during WWII. For the benefit of the country and the war effort, Americans were asked to sacrifice, to avoid using or wasting certain things.
The problem today is that alone won't buy us much time. Americans, who use 1/4 of all the worlds crude oil, could conserve by driving less. This might reduce our need for crude oil from 21 million barrels a day to 20 million barrels. Meanwhile the rest of the world is using a total of 63 million barrels of oil per day at present. The problem is that the rest of the world, China and India in particular, is developing rapidly, almost exponentially. They are adding millions of cars and trucks and will need huge supplies of crude oil. China may go from needing less than 10 million barrels of crude oil per day to over 80 million barrels per day, in less than ten years! So even if Americans finally start conserving, it won't make much difference. The demand for crude oil will double in ten years and the supply will stay the same, or maybe, as many believe, the supply of crude oil has peaked, and it will gradually decline.
We are in deep trouble. We may face shortages and see rationing in the coming years. If you don't feel the need to make sacrifices for the good of the country, you are a part of the problem. Sadly, when the government is forced to hand out 100 gallon monthly ration coupons to all of us, it won't matter how well off you are financially. You'll get the same amount as the rest of us. You can drive your RV on a weekend vacation and use up all your allotted fuel, or you can conserve it and spread out the use to get you through the month.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that. Not right away. Let's hope we can build some nuclear power plants and hydro-electric dams, and get solar panels on everyone's roofs, and harness more wind power, and create more bio-fuels, and design better batteries for the second generation hybrids that will rely more on electricity. It will require an effort similar to going to the moon. We all need to agree on the urgency and agree on allowing the government to take even more of our money to fund such a project. Plus we will need to move forward despite the voices that will tell us we are going to create more climate change. We have to weigh the current needs vs. the idea that we might be contributing to global climate change. We're just gonna have to solve that issue at a later time.
So what do you say? Are you willing to help out "in your lifetime", even if it means a lower standard of living? Better to choose to help out than force the government to step in and ration our fuel because we didn't care to cut back.
Strawfoot
2007 Keystone Cougar 244RLS
520 watts solar, 790 amp-hr @ 12v, 2000 watt Magnum, Winegard Slimline HD, 32" LCD, Onkyo 7-channel surround + sub-woofer, JT Strongarms, 16" HiSpec Wheels, BFG Commercial T/A's, Yamaha EF3000iSEB (propane), Thule T2 Bike Rack
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mrjimboalaska
Abilene, Tx. at the moment
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Are you for real? Take MORE of my money....NO SIR!
The "FREE MARKET" is where this boy wants to spend his money.
We need to DRILL HERE, DRILL NOW, AND PAY LESS!
I'm all for WIND, HYDRO(with some exceptions), BIO(non foodstaple), TIDAL, and NUCLEAR....ALL THE ABOVE....
I am NOT willing to kill our economy on some whim that "Global WARMING" is going to kill us all. When I was a kid, it was "COOLING" that was going to do that.
Energy DRIVES our economy, take it away, well, it would be worse than it already is. ALL products are more expensive today than last year alone due to the ENERGY cost involved in either growth, or manufacturing, AND Transportation.
This "MOON PROJECT" or "SACRIFICE ILKE WW2" is nonsence. THe Nazi's arent running over Europe, and Japan does not have worldly ambitions, if that were the case, I'll plant my victory garden, and ration my fuel.
30 years of Environmentalist destruction of OUR infastructure and the Democarts supporting that movement has put us in this position.
EXPAND ALL OUR ENERGY SOURCES, and FREEZE out the Sierra CLub's from our court system. THen maybe we can allow free market to bring us cleaner energy and new technology in tranportation.
Your willingness to give the Govenment MORE money astounds me. The Government doesnt know what PROFIT IS!
Wait till they run your Healthcare(god forbid)...........Stop drinking the "Hope and Change" koolaid, and think for yourself.
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wredman
missouri
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I found the information in here regarding recent mergers very interesting. This is a long read, and I dont agree with all of it.
http://www.citizen.org/documents/House08.pdf
..................
2017 Thor Hurricane 34F
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Strawfoot
Flagstaff, AZ, USA
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mrjimboalaska wrote:Are you for real? Take MORE of my money....NO SIR!
The "FREE MARKET" is where this boy wants to spend his money.
We need to DRILL HERE, DRILL NOW, AND PAY LESS!
I'm all for WIND, HYDRO(with some exceptions), BIO(non foodstaple), TIDAL, and NUCLEAR....ALL THE ABOVE....
EXPAND ALL OUR ENERGY SOURCES
Your money will be taken, one way or the other. Just like the old tv commercial where the mechanic is speaking to the camera saying; pay me now or pay me later. Some people would rather skip $30 oil changes and then face the consequences of a $5000 motor rebuild.
What I'm talking about are capital expenditures. You want more wind power and more hydro power and nuclear power, etc. But who is going to lay out the capital? Who will pay to expand energy sources?
One thing most Americans have in common is they demand low taxes and lots of services from our government. In particular the older generation. They want medicare or medicaid to pay for a pair of new knees and maybe a hip replacement and they don't want to be out more than a couple hundred bucks. They want to dial a number from a television commercial and get a motorized cart to haul their lazy butt around and they don't want to pay for it.
Now you want cheaper fuel and more drilling and more hydro dams and more solar power and more wind turbines, and you want someone else to pay for the cost. You even blame Democrats and environmentalists for the current problems. Well, that might have some truth to it but you are no different than them. when it comes to a vote, you are going to vote no on hydro and solar and nuclear unless it is free. You are just as much of a road block as them.
My parents help pay for the moon landing and I personally believe that was a waste of money. I'd put all those NASA engineers to work designing a zero emission electric vehicle that will cover 300 miles between charges, and make them earn their pay instead on blowing up space shuttles at a cost of a billion dollars per. Still, somebody has to organize these huge projects and come up with the money to get the construction underway.
If you have a better idea, I'm all ears.
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macira
bullhead city,Az
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Joined: 02/28/2002
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Strawfoot.. Electric cars that go 300 miles between charges..HMM now about what produces the electricity to charge them..Hot air maybe?
Mac USAF retired
2001 Seaview 32 ft model 8311
Ford f53
2007 HHR
Brake buddy
Falcon2 Towbar
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mrjimboalaska
Abilene, Tx. at the moment
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Strawfoot wrote:
What I'm talking about are capital expenditures. You want more wind power and more hydro power and nuclear power, etc. But who is going to lay out the capital? Who will pay to expand energy sources?
.
I see you were absent during Economics 101 eh?
The consumer will pay for the end product, thus allowing you to produce the product.
If you think "windfall taxes" on "Big Oil" is going to encourage them to increase capital expenditures, you are huffing glue.
first of all, business does NOT PAY TAXES, the consumer does. If my Tax Bill increases, I increase the cost of my product/service to match that increase. That insures that I still have a profit margin, which insures that my employees get paid, that I pay my premium on their Health Insurance, and their 401k accounts are funded.
Nuclear power is the cheapest to produce, then Coal, then Hydro, then Oil, then LNG, then wind, then Solar, Why are we not building Nuclear Power Plants(which will be REQUIRED if you get a electric fleet of cars roaming the roads and plugging in every night)?
EIS, NIMBY's, and Greenpeace.....Court battles.....
If you think the GOVERNMENT can manage our Energy Production, you are lost, they cant even manage keeping our roads in good shape...gee, wonder where all that fuel tax goes? Gee, wonder where all that revenue from Vehicle Registration goes?
Gee, wonder where all our Social Security Taxes went?
As for me, I demand Fire Service, Police Service, Good Schools for my kids, and Good Roads.....Oh, and I pay for those services thru TAXES.
SO, TELL ME AGAIN THE BENEFIT OF PAYING MORE TAXES?
guess I'll go inflate my tires and solve the energy problem......
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donee
Ca. 93063/ Ut 84129
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As a rule, and correct me if Im wrong, from what I understand, the fuel taxs are supposed to be put into the fund to pay for road repair.
Problem is that the smart ( and I use that term loosly) people in Washington and your local capitols, will dip into the fund for their pet projects and no one says anything about it until the funds are needed and then they say that the funds arent available.
Gee, I wonder why????
donnie (K7UTA) & Linda
1 rescued furrykid "Buddy"
2016 Fleetwood SouthWind 32VS
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topflite51
In The Desert of Nevada
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mrjimboalaska wrote:Strawfoot wrote:
What I'm talking about are capital expenditures. You want more wind power and more hydro power and nuclear power, etc. But who is going to lay out the capital? Who will pay to expand energy sources?
.
I see you were absent during Economics 101 eh?
The consumer will pay for the end product, thus allowing you to produce the product.
If you think "windfall taxes" on "Big Oil" is going to encourage them to increase capital expenditures, you are huffing glue.
first of all, business does NOT PAY TAXES, the consumer does. If my Tax Bill increases, I increase the cost of my product/service to match that increase. That insures that I still have a profit margin, which insures that my employees get paid, that I pay my premium on their Health Insurance, and their 401k accounts are funded.
Nuclear power is the cheapest to produce, then Coal, then Hydro, then Oil, then LNG, then wind, then Solar, Why are we not building Nuclear Power Plants(which will be REQUIRED if you get a electric fleet of cars roaming the roads and plugging in every night)?
EIS, NIMBY's, and Greenpeace.....Court battles.....
If you think the GOVERNMENT can manage our Energy Production, you are lost, they cant even manage keeping our roads in good shape...gee, wonder where all that fuel tax goes? Gee, wonder where all that revenue from Vehicle Registration goes?
Gee, wonder where all our Social Security Taxes went?
As for me, I demand Fire Service, Police Service, Good Schools for my kids, and Good Roads.....Oh, and I pay for those services thru TAXES.
SO, TELL ME AGAIN THE BENEFIT OF PAYING MORE TAXES?
guess I'll go inflate my tires and solve the energy problem...... Have to agree with Jimbo. The last thing government needs is more of my money to squander. I can squander it all by myself, THANK YOU!![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
For some Economics 101 is where they learned to cook up screwy ideas like paying more taxes.![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/doh.gif "doh")
">David
Just rolling along enjoying life
w/F53 Southwind towing a 87 Samurai or 01 Grand Vitara looking to fish
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Any errors are a result of CRS.">
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Strawfoot
Flagstaff, AZ, USA
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I like the direction this topic has moved in. We are doing more than just blaming some group for the problem. But we are still short on ideas. Saying we can't trust the government to oversee or direct a major build-up of alternative energy sources is understandable considering the low approval rating of our congress. But what then is the solution?
Who is going to build 100 new hydro-electric dams? Who is going to build 100 new nuclear power plants? The government will have to play a major role. If the majority of Americans refuse to give them the ability to get these type of projects started, we will get deeper into trouble.
Ten years from now, when we still have zero new nuclear power plants and zero new hydro-electric dams, who do we blame? The politicians, of course. But they will tell us they got no support for building anything. They'll tell the press that thousands of Jimbo Alaska's wrote them letters saying they refuse to pay for anything other than fire. police and schools for their kids. They expect all that new infrastructure to just appear, as if by magic. Plus, they feel that at their age, they can run out the clock on what is left of traditional energy sources and let their grandkids solve the energy problems after they are dead and gone. Their logic is that "
The consumer will pay for the end product, thus allowing you to produce the product. ". So because the consumer wants cheap electricity, someone will simply "produce" it. That's how economics works, right?
Listen, Jimbo isn't A whacko environmentalist. He might be causing the same amount of gridlock as them but he is just an old timer who doesn't want to help fund any new energy projects with his tax dollars, based on the history congress has wasting those tax dollars in the past. So ultimately nothing is going to happen. We are going to experience higher and higher fuel costs and fail to take action to shift energy sources. It will get bad for the average consumer and then it will get really bad, and then it will get unbearable. All the while, people all over the country will log onto various internet forums and blame the government and oil companies and investors/speculators for the great big mess they got us into.
Does anyone here think we should be doing a bit more than just blaming others? That maybe we should seek long term solutions and pay the cost of implementing those solutions.
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macira
bullhead city,Az
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Strawfoot. The world has already had a failed example of Governmant directed and controlled industry and development. That was the USSR, even now Comunist China is far from that Marxist-Leninist/Socialist model.
We need Legislators that help folks do and develope industries that are honest,
and desired by folks willing to trade and buy them.
Government direction of business and development is a sure road to perdition.
Lets have "Change that works"!!
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