Wizbangdoodle
Washington
Full Member
Joined: 05/17/2007
View Profile
 Offline
|
allcool wrote:Wizbangdoodle wrote:I have an '07 full throttle 5er. I have been busy with repairs on this rig. I was sitting here browsing and came upon this thread. Am I to assume that since this is a sticky, that WW's have an unusually high amount of problems. I don't doubt it. This thing has more problems than I care to remember. I am in the middle of repairing the garage wall from water intrusion from the wheel well. The entire lower wall was rotten. I cut a piece of treated 2x12 to fit in the space, coated it with flexseal and wrapped it in Tyvex. Once that was bolted in, I resealed the side to the board. Used expanding foam where needed and under-coated the whole thing with flexseal. Pain in the ass for something that should have been sealed at the factory.
Let me guess,,, the wheel well separated from the wall and floor. Textbook WW(and many other TH) wall sag symptom.
Just fixing the symptom will not fix your problem.
It will only get much worse, more costly to fix.
Do a search for WW wall sag. Its a frame problem.
If one wheel well was already leaking enough to cause water damage, you've probably got it bad.
jmo
Well, not exactly. I wouldn't call it wall separation. It was water thrown up by the wheel and just rotted out the area above it, which just happens to be the front corner of the garage. Once completed, I plan on having the underside undercoated. This should seal up any other areas. I purchased a moisture meter and will be going over the trailer with a fine tooth comb looking for any more problem areas. If this is wall separation, then I have it. If it does get worse, I don't have much choice but to just keep fixing this POS. Is it just WW that was built this bad or are all trailers lacking in any kind of quality workmanship and materials?
'17 F450 CCLB Platinum dually
|
allcool
sFL_Glamis_PHX
Senior Member
Joined: 10/22/2011
View Profile
Offline
|
Wizbangdoodle wrote:
Well, not exactly. I wouldn't call it wall separation.
Maybe, maybe not. This might help you, try this bounce test...
Here is a description of the bounce test. It exposes damaging frame flex/wall sag. It was posted by a forum member from GD.com. This procedure originally comes from RV doctor.
The original article is from jsalazar903. A member of GD.com. He sent this to me couple years ago and gets all credit for it.... Hope it helps. The pics are from a fsw2800, but most larger WW of that era are similar.
You might not see the pics unless you join/log on to GD.com.
Hope this doesn't break RV.net rules, just thought this test is relevant and should be part of this WW repair/damage/problem thread...
To do the bounce test, stand right where the beaver end starts to dip down. right above the last tie-down (see pic). ramp closed.
![[image]](http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/gsxr310/IMG_20111113_134059.jpg)
now have someone else kneel next to the heater vent. on my floorplan, the heater vent from the pic is on the sink end, next to the couch....
![[image]](http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/gsxr310/IMG_20111113_134107.jpg)
have that person place their hand as in the picture...
![[image]](http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/gsxr310/IMG_20111113_134204.jpg)
now strt jumping up n down repeatedly. jump hard as if your mimicking the bumpy freeways! if your buddy that has his hand placed by the heater vent feels the wood flexxing, then you have symptoms of the sagging walls!!!!
other symptoms include....
the wheel box separating from the floor. also note the caulking separating as well....
![[image]](http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/gsxr310/IMG_20111113_134118.jpg)
![[image]](http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/gsxr310/IMG_20111113_134132.jpg)
and the trim not lining up no more is also symtoms....
![[image]](http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/gsxr310/IMG_20111113_134148.jpg)
The board right above my WW FSW3200 heater vent was broken in. I though someone had hit it with quad or sandrail wheel when pulling in... WRONG. That board routinely breaks from frame flex, do the test, you'll see/feel it flex in and out right there above the vent, on every jump, an unbelievable amount of frame flex. After RV doctors fix, there is NONE, solid as a rock.
Moderators Edit: Adjusted photo width to 640 pixels per the forum guidelines. The Photo FAQ's has help & tips for posting photos.
* This post was
edited 08/03/13 10:18am by an administrator/moderator *
2007 WW FSW3200
RZRS k&t Turbo
2 LT500
1 Lt500 hybrid
F350 CC 6.7PS Platinum
|
Wizbangdoodle
Washington
Full Member
Joined: 05/17/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
Great info. I'll have to try that test. Mine is a bit different though being that it is a 5th wheel, the garage is separate from the living area. I suppose I should be able to put my hand on the front wall of the garage and see if there is any flex. As I understood it, the Full Throttles did not suffer from frame issues like the tongue trailers did. Anyone have confirmation on this? Anyway, I have not really seen any evidence of trim misalignment or seams coming apart. I pray I don't have any frame issues or I may have to drive this thing off a cliff. Oh well, taking it to an alignment shop on Monday to get all 3 axles straight. The tires on the rear axle always wear out premature. Left side wears on the inside, right side wears on the outside. Other 2 axles seem to be ok. I was told they use cheap Chinese axles on these. I am also having brake issues with this unit. I tow with an '08 F-350 with a built-in brake controller. I'll be driving along and it will display "wiring fault on trailer". I replaced the pigtail and the plug in the bed of the truck, still has the problem. I disconnected 1 set of brakes at a time and it went away. I assume there is an intermittent short on the coils. Anyone have suggestions of a reliable brand brake replacement?
|
SolidAxleDurango
OK, USA
Senior Member
Joined: 01/02/2003
View Profile
|
Wizbangdoodle wrote:Great info. I'll have to try that test. Mine is a bit different though being that it is a 5th wheel, the garage is separate from the living area. I suppose I should be able to put my hand on the front wall of the garage and see if there is any flex. As I understood it, the Full Throttles did not suffer from frame issues like the tongue trailers did. Anyone have confirmation on this? Anyway, I have not really seen any evidence of trim misalignment or seams coming apart. I pray I don't have any frame issues or I may have to drive this thing off a cliff. Oh well, taking it to an alignment shop on Monday to get all 3 axles straight. The tires on the rear axle always wear out premature. Left side wears on the inside, right side wears on the outside. Other 2 axles seem to be ok. I was told they use cheap Chinese axles on these. I am also having brake issues with this unit. I tow with an '08 F-350 with a built-in brake controller. I'll be driving along and it will display "wiring fault on trailer". I replaced the pigtail and the plug in the bed of the truck, still has the problem. I disconnected 1 set of brakes at a time and it went away. I assume there is an intermittent short on the coils. Anyone have suggestions of a reliable brand brake replacement?
Mine was a 5th wheel....
TV = 15 Ram 3500 Dually 6.7 / CC-LB / CTD / Aisin / 3.42 / 4wd / EBrake
5er = 12 Keystone Avalanche 330RE
Toys = 08 Kawasaki Brutie Force 650i 4x4 ( x2 "> ) 14 Arctic Cat Wildcat 1000
|
Wizbangdoodle
Washington
Full Member
Joined: 05/17/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
SolidAxleDurango wrote:Wizbangdoodle wrote:Great info. I'll have to try that test. Mine is a bit different though being that it is a 5th wheel, the garage is separate from the living area. I suppose I should be able to put my hand on the front wall of the garage and see if there is any flex. As I understood it, the Full Throttles did not suffer from frame issues like the tongue trailers did. Anyone have confirmation on this? Anyway, I have not really seen any evidence of trim misalignment or seams coming apart. I pray I don't have any frame issues or I may have to drive this thing off a cliff. Oh well, taking it to an alignment shop on Monday to get all 3 axles straight. The tires on the rear axle always wear out premature. Left side wears on the inside, right side wears on the outside. Other 2 axles seem to be ok. I was told they use cheap Chinese axles on these. I am also having brake issues with this unit. I tow with an '08 F-350 with a built-in brake controller. I'll be driving along and it will display "wiring fault on trailer". I replaced the pigtail and the plug in the bed of the truck, still has the problem. I disconnected 1 set of brakes at a time and it went away. I assume there is an intermittent short on the coils. Anyone have suggestions of a reliable brand brake replacement?
Mine was a 5th wheel....
Ugh, I didn't want to hear that. So, did this test work for you? You had wall separation?
|
|
|
allcool
sFL_Glamis_PHX
Senior Member
Joined: 10/22/2011
View Profile
Offline
|
Wizbangdoodle wrote:Great info. I'll have to try that test. Mine is a bit different though being that it is a 5th wheel, the garage is separate from the living area. I suppose I should be able to put my hand on the front wall of the garage and see if there is any flex. As I understood it, the Full Throttles did not suffer from frame issues like the tongue trailers did. Anyone have confirmation on this? Anyway, I have not really seen any evidence of trim misalignment or seams coming apart. I pray I don't have any frame issues or I may have to drive this thing off a cliff. Oh well, taking it to an alignment shop on Monday to get all 3 axles straight. The tires on the rear axle always wear out premature. Left side wears on the inside, right side wears on the outside. Other 2 axles seem to be ok. I was told they use cheap Chinese axles on these. I am also having brake issues with this unit. I tow with an '08 F-350 with a built-in brake controller. I'll be driving along and it will display "wiring fault on trailer". I replaced the pigtail and the plug in the bed of the truck, still has the problem. I disconnected 1 set of brakes at a time and it went away. I assume there is an intermittent short on the coils. Anyone have suggestions of a reliable brand brake replacement?
Well, not sure what model full throttle you have. I've seen 4 or 5 different ones, all with different floor plans. Also not sure whats the best way to do the bounce test for your garage model.
Might see if you can get your hand or fingers in between the tire and inner wheel well. Behind each tire. If the tire is touching or almost touching the back of wheel well, you diffidently have a current problem.
Before driving your TH off the cliff, I'd give Jim at South Cali RV Doctor a call. He is the expert in WW problems, and will help you. He devised the bounce test. He worked at WW factory as a manager iirr. I would ask him about all your problems before I had an alignment shop or any other work done.
The frame flex wall sag problem, if caught early, many TH usually can be fixed perfectly, resulting in a very solid durable TH.
Many brand TH that used the Lippert frames have this issue, like some Keystone and Forest River.
My frame had the retrofit done by RV Doctor a couple years ago.They have frame jigs just for this retrofit. I did not have wall sag or wall separation,,, yet. Just had some frame flex. My wheel wells were just starting to show slight signs of a developing problem. My cabinet wall above the heater vent broke from frame flex. But No leaks, no rotted wood, no cabinet wall separation, or no floor wall separation and no roof problems.
My WW really has been a great TH for me. I luv it. Got it a few years ago with 24 hours on the Genny, plastic bag still on both mattresses.
My WW is rock solid now, without the stabilizer jacks down. Now it feels solid and no movement hardly at all. Feels like it did before the frame retrofit, but with all 4 stabilizer jacks down on solid ground. It tows great and it is 38' long, and a very heavy 13,000+gvw. Tire wear is not a problem once I got the 235/85 16E Michelin Ribs. Although uneven wear wasn't a problem before either, it was tread separation of the china bombs.
IMO many higher end WW were some of the best set up TH ever made. Once the frame problems are fixed they seem to be very solid durable TH with all the bells and whistles... Haven't seen a bumper pull yet that compares to my FSW3200, even brand new ones at the shows.
jmo
* This post was
edited 08/04/13 10:30am by allcool *
|
SolidAxleDurango
OK, USA
Senior Member
Joined: 01/02/2003
View Profile
|
Wizbangdoodle wrote:SolidAxleDurango wrote:Wizbangdoodle wrote:Great info. I'll have to try that test. Mine is a bit different though being that it is a 5th wheel, the garage is separate from the living area. I suppose I should be able to put my hand on the front wall of the garage and see if there is any flex. As I understood it, the Full Throttles did not suffer from frame issues like the tongue trailers did. Anyone have confirmation on this? Anyway, I have not really seen any evidence of trim misalignment or seams coming apart. I pray I don't have any frame issues or I may have to drive this thing off a cliff. Oh well, taking it to an alignment shop on Monday to get all 3 axles straight. The tires on the rear axle always wear out premature. Left side wears on the inside, right side wears on the outside. Other 2 axles seem to be ok. I was told they use cheap Chinese axles on these. I am also having brake issues with this unit. I tow with an '08 F-350 with a built-in brake controller. I'll be driving along and it will display "wiring fault on trailer". I replaced the pigtail and the plug in the bed of the truck, still has the problem. I disconnected 1 set of brakes at a time and it went away. I assume there is an intermittent short on the coils. Anyone have suggestions of a reliable brand brake replacement?
Mine was a 5th wheel....
Ugh, I didn't want to hear that. So, did this test work for you? You had wall separation?
Some places to check...
1) kitchen counter pulling away from wall... If your kitchen counter is on a slide, this may not show up...
2) uneven gaps and caulking where the floor meets the wall. At one point, I could see pavement....
3) carefully feel all up and down your walls inside the garage area - especially near dovetail. Any irregularities should cause concern... On the outside, you likely have a long trim piece that runs the length of your camper on both sides. Basically your right and left walls are too tall to be one piece of fiberglass. WW made the wall by butting two pieces of fiberglass up against or another. Just some rusted screws and butyl tape sealing it.... Guaranteed to be leaks there. Too much movement on the road for this. Totally chitty design.
|
Wizbangdoodle
Washington
Full Member
Joined: 05/17/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
Allcool, thanks for the info and words of hope. So far, the rest of the trailer looks ok, no separation issues or anything. I'll call RV Doctor in the morning. SolidAxle, the kitchen is on a slide (Norco/BAL cable type, but that is another story) so no flex check there. That slide trim did start to separate at the lower left corner at one point, but had that fixed. I will check into any more issues as far as flex symptoms. The garage floor and walls seem to be pretty solid, relatively speaking. No alignment problems that I can see. I did get to experience the wall seam you spoke about. That is a lousy way to do it. I put treated wood behind it and filled it with sealer and put the trim back on. Hope that holds up.
|
Wizbangdoodle
Washington
Full Member
Joined: 05/17/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
Update: First trip out since repair. I rewired the brakes and pulled the cheap "lamp cord" out of the axle tubes. Replaced with thicker insulation wire double jacketed. Ran it on the outside of the axle. My "Wiring Fault On Trailer" message on the dash has gone away. So far the wall is holding up, however, I have not driven it in the rain yet.
|
SMarquez
Rancho Cucamonga, Ca
Senior Member
Joined: 07/26/2006
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
armdrag wrote:Dkipz, here is what the osb floor is It is not continus but stapled together. Which is actually very strong considering the twist and spring the trailer goes through in transit ![[image]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-urgkFtWwzzc/T8Y1u8HfAxI/AAAAAAAAG5I/M_JPZc_Fads/w626-h834-no/IMAGE_55F9BCC1-B12B-432A-BF51-0868D66018BD.JPG)
Here is my repair album
WW Repair
Jeez, I had the same type of damage but not as extensive on the floor. Only the front of my storage was rotted. I paid for my repair but think I got a decent deal. $3300 got a new roof that is all walk on, all rot repaired, 6 more HD frame brackets added and the tongue was reinforced. I didn't have any wall sag. The traler tows a lot better with the tongue bracing.
I never liked the dump plumbing set-up much either. Do you have some pics of the mods you did to yours?
|
|
|
|
