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hook47
Olympic Peninsula, WA, USA
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pupeperson wrote:
Yes. That is correct, to a point. I believe it is unreasonable to list loads that cannot be carried at highway speeds. I also think it would be difficult to explain those precise nuances to most folks, including those who might give you a ticket for exceeding the weight rating molded on the tire sidewall. Increasing pressures above the listed maximum is normally limited to 5psi and 5mph and applies predominantly to ST rated tires
So now Goodyear is making law? Read the load inflation table, you can increase by 9% with no decrease in speed from the usual 55 MPH. Also, can increase by 16% if you don't go past 45 MPH which is usually the minimum hwy speed. Plus, on a DRW TV, you will be able to exceed the axle rating without exceeding the tire ratings, I believe. Also, I do believe that from reading the various posts by LEO's that they would be the last one to look at an RV'ers tires and write them up!
What I am trying to get across is that ratings are not cast in concrete, and many times are variable depending on various criteria.
azcamping wrote:"For all of those folks that want the OEM ratings to be law, how about going out and loading your pickup truck (that is the class of truck we are dealing with, right?) to a weight significantly over the door sticker. Then, go find..."
Uh, no.
I think the OEM ratings should at the very least be respected during the warranty period.
So, after the warranty is over you can dis-respect the ratings? This is a post about legalities, not warranties. Also, the OEM would have to comply with the The Magnuson-Moss Federal Trade Commission
Warranty Act (United States Code Annotated Title 15 Commerce and Trade Chapter 50 Consumer Product Warranties 15 Section 2302) and basically prove what you did caused the failure, if there was one.
For those that "respect" the OEM ratings and actually know what they are and what they weigh, that is great. No disrespect to that point of view. Those that exceed them and know and operate their vehicle accordingly, great. Those that don't have a clue...
I find it amusing that we go roundy round every once in awhile on this subject, then it just dies. Until the same folks that ask the question about legalities and don't like the answer find a new way to ask the question. Then we are off and running again!
Oh well, until next time,Merry Christmas, y'all...![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
* This post was
edited 12/05/07 09:49pm by hook47 *
2008 Chevy 3500HD LTZ 4X4 CC / Banks IQ with Speedbrake & Economind tuner /2013 38RESB3...I know, the TV color doesn't match the MS!
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azcamping
Phoenix, AZ
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.
* This post was
edited 12/09/07 11:27am by azcamping *
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pupeperson
Silver Springs, NV
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Hook47 said: "So now Goodyear is making law? Read the load inflation table, you can increase by 9% with no decrease in speed from the usual 55 MPH. Also, can increase by 16% if you don't go past 45 MPH which is usually the minimum hwy speed. "
No. Goodyear isn't making any law I know about. They (and others) do provide tires that match the ratings that comply with the standards (law) the DOT recognizes in which they specify weight, pressure and speed, each of which is a component of the tires' rating.
By slowing down, one may make some modest increases in weight capacity. One can also add some pressure and carry a bit more. BUT (there's always a BUT) this makes your tires carcass far more susceptible to bruising or breaking from impacts they could otherwise easily absorb. Separations are also more likely from the heat buildup within the tire. Also, I know of no one (thankfully) that drives around impeding trafic at 45 mph down the freeway with grossly overloaded tires/wheels. Even restricting ones' speed to the 55 mph you mention in your post is unlikely over time, at least it is in this part of the country (Nevada. Open roads with speed limits of from 65 to 75 mph for the most part.)
It's possible to mount some tires (implement rated) that are not DOT rated on rims that will fit the hubs on our trucks which can then be used to carry tremendous loads over rough terrain at slow speeds, not to exceed 35 mph. But these tires are of little import to the average RVer or even commercial hauler for that matter.
The tires to which I referred are DOT rated at the weight and pressure I posted, including a speed rating of 75 mph, which is far more in line with what people might actually limit themselves to than some particular percentage of overload at reduced speeds and increased pressures you mention.
I think you might be giving the average person who possesses little actual knowledge of how tires are built and/or rated just enough information to be dangerous to themselves and others. I personally wouldn't advocate exceeding the tires DOT rating. Even exceeding the ST rated tires speed rating of 65 mph on my trailer is spooky to me. Can hardly wait to change them out for some LT rated tires I won't have to worry so much about.
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nevadanick
Elko, Nevada
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I keep it simple, my truck and trailer weigh approx 15,000 so i license for 16,000 and dont worry about anything or anyone else.
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wildnfree
railroad hill
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I think someone posted way back on page two or three that these Federal regulations only apply when you are on the NN or National Truck Network of Federal highways, unless a particular state has passed state laws to use those regulations on other highways. If you look at a map of the NN there aren't many highways on that map.
If you aren't on those particular highways other regulations from each individual state would apply.
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pupeperson
Silver Springs, NV
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Here's a little more grist for the mill. I read the following in the June issue of Trailer Life Magazine, page 108. It is the answer by the "Trailer Life Tech Team" to a question regarding the differences in actual sticker weight ratings on the different, generically similar trucks from the various manufacturers --- Why are some rated higher or lower than others? I quote:
"Each manufacturer has its own guidelines for determining its tow ratings, and they are proprietary. Many variables can determine a tow-rating limit."
I believe the above statement, by supposedly qualified individuals, lends credence to the position that the stickers have little or no import in law, and are strictly advisory in nature --- like the proverbial mattress tag.
Apparently, the stickers have few if any common standards upon which they are based, as differentiated from a DOT tire rating, for instance.
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Mike Up
NW Indiana
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Sorry to bring this up a couple months after the fact. Here's what I got from the thread by policeman. Now I didn't read all as I have a severe headache.
The sticker on the door means nothing. This is just the manufacturer stating the limits of the vehicle. So payload, GVWR, and GAWRs mean nothing legally.
The sticker can be used by the manufacturer for warranty related issues though.
Legally, the 20K, 35K, and 80K lbs come into play for commercial but not RVs. However if a motorhome is grossly overloaded visually, an officer can use the same rules but they'll likely not be close to these ratings.
How about tire ratings, are these used at all?? Didn't seem to see a definite answer to this.
So legally, the registered plate rating is what's used for law enforcement. Hence, the typical 1/2 ton "7000 lb" plate that's common in Indiana.
On a side note that I didn't see referenced, how about a crash/accident.
In legal or court proceedings, can't the manufacturers ratings be used. I know in a civil proceeding, anything can go.
So what I took out of this is that the manufacturers sticker means nothing legally with possibly the tire rating meaning something legally.
Otherwise, the registered license plate weight rating rules all legalities for the GVW of the vehicle.
While the public at large is protected from commercial overweight trucks, looks like none commercial or recreational vehicles can cause harm to anyone on the public roadways from overload conditions without any legal protections for the public.
Thanks for clearing this up, good to know.
Have a good one.
2019 Ford F150 XLT Sport, CC, 4WD, 145" WB, 3.5L Ecoboost, 10 speed, 3.55 9.75" Locking Axle, Max Tow, 1831# Payload, 10700# Tow Rating, pulling a 2020 Rockwood Premier 2716g, with a 14' box. Previous 2012 Jayco Jay Flight 26BH.
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Wadcutter
IL
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Mike Up wrote:Sorry to bring this up a couple months after the fact. Here's what I got from the thread by policeman. Now I didn't read all as I have a severe headache.
You should have read the prior posts it would have saved you the trouble of posting. What you posted is pretty much exactly what I've said all along in this thread.
I enforced weight laws and taught weight laws for a lot of years and was recognized by the courts as an expert in weight laws.
But thanks for reenforcing.
Camped in every state
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JetAonly
Ohio
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With out Hijacking the thread, how do the manufacturers decide what the GVWR is for a vehicle?
2000 Monaco Dynasty
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rsh_757
Auburn, WA
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JetAonly wrote:With out Hijacking the thread, how do the manufacturers decide what the GVWR is for a vehicle?
They up it every year just a little more than the highest posted rating of the year before ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile") Then they remove seat padding, first aid kit and use more aluminum/plastic to make the truck lighter.
2008 Cougar 310SRX 5th Wheel
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 QC 4x4 CTD
2008 Nissan Armada LE
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