JIMNLIN
Oklahoma
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Quote:Your opinion does not line up with SAE J2807 methodology and the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, Title 49, Section 751.105.
And then asks
If you can provide a document supporting your opinion about the GVWR of 14K, please do so. I would very much like to read it.
You talk about oranges and ask a guy to supply a document about apples.
J2807 is a series of tests to determine a GCWR recommendation and says;
Scope:
This document establishes minimum performance criteria at GCWR and calculation methodology to determine tow-vehicle TWR for passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles and trucks. This includes all vehicles up to 13 000 lb GVWR. It is recommended that the performance requirements within be adopted for all vehicles with model year designation 2013 or later.**
Two items of interest ...
1. Cummins truck is 14000 lbs GVWR and isn't covered in the J2807 recommendation.
2. J2807 only effects those 13k and smaller vehicles built after around 2013.
3. J2807 is nothing regulatory in nature or carry any legal implications for any trucks on the road.
4. I see no CFR 49 751.105 regulation
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers
'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides
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DW-gray
Lompoc, CA
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JIMNLIN wrote:Quote:Your opinion does not line up with SAE J2807 methodology and the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, Title 49, Section 751.105.
And then asks
If you can provide a document supporting your opinion about the GVWR of 14K, please do so. I would very much like to read it.
You talk about oranges and ask a guy to supply a document about apples.
J2807 is a series of tests to determine a GCWR recommendation and says;
Scope:
This document establishes minimum performance criteria at GCWR and calculation methodology to determine tow-vehicle TWR for passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles and trucks. This includes all vehicles up to 13 000 lb GVWR. It is recommended that the performance requirements within be adopted for all vehicles with model year designation 2013 or later.**
Two items of interest ...
1. Cummins truck is 14000 lbs GVWR and isn't covered in the J2807 recommendation.
2. J2807 only effects those 13k and smaller vehicles built after around 2013.
3. J2807 is nothing regulatory in nature or carry any legal implications for any trucks on the road.
4. I see no CFR 49 751.105 regulation
Apparently, you are reading an outdated J2087. I have the most current document dated FEB2016.
1.SCOPE
This document establishes minimum performance criteria at GCWR and calculation methodology to determine tow-vehicle TWR for passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles and trucks. This includes all vehicles up to 14000 lb GVWR.
True, none of the SAE Standards are regulatory and auto manufacturers can ignore it altogether.
One of your points was "The 14k is to keep the truck in the class 3." How do you know that? Where is a document with that claim? Do you have a document stating that the truck in has been derated? If so, how much?
As an RV safety educator promoting safe towing by not exceeding any of the weight safety ratings, I am ethically bound to the ratings that the manufacturers publish. Not what you or I think what a vehicle may be capable of doing, nor will I follow what the crowd is doing. Which by the way, 60% of the tow vehicles towing trailers exceed at least one weight safety rating.
Dave Gray
RV Safety Educator & Consultant
08 Dodge Ram 3500 4X4, Dually, 6.7L Diesel, 09 Heartland Cyclone 4012
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bpounds
Sophmore Brain...
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DW-gray wrote:...by the way, 60 of the tow vehicles towing trailers exceed at least one weight safety rating.
And we all know how the highways are littered with wrecked RVs. NOT. All that statistic does is illustrate the manufacturer specs are next to meaningless.
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DW-gray
Lompoc, CA
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bpounds wrote:DW-gray wrote:...by the way, 60 of the tow vehicles towing trailers exceed at least one weight safety rating.
And we all know how the highways are littered with wrecked RVs. NOT. All that statistic does is illustrate the manufacturer specs are next to meaningless.
Nor are the highways littered with auto accidents. Those who turn a blind eye will never see the truth. Just because you may have never driven by one, doesn't mean they never happen. I wish your assertion was true about the number of trailer and RV related accidents.
Here are just a few major wrecks since Memorial Day that made it on internet news reports. There are countless numbers that aren't reported for us to read about.
One killed, three injured after bad cras........ounty-Six-month-old baby died days later
KY man suffered major injuries in Jefferson Co., IL crash
3 Amarillo men die when detached trailer crashes into road workers
********
RV App creator to donate proceeds to fam........y of baby killed in Lincoln County crash
********
A report released by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety administration’s report in 2003 said that more than 70,000 people were involved in RV accidents that year. In 2012, they reported 75,000 injuries due to RV accidents.
A Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) analysis of data between 2000 and 2007 found that a total of 212 people died in RV accidents in those years. At 26 deaths per year, the rate of RV deaths has an average fatality rate of 1/3 of the average rate of all vehicles or 0.44per 100 million vehicles miles versus 1.48 for all vehicles in the US.
* This post was
last
edited 06/11/17 06:57pm by DW-gray *
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rhagfo
Portland, OR
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Interesting that all three accidents are trailer disconnected accidents. Could be exceeding hitch ratings, or just stupid mistakes!
* This post was
edited 06/24/17 07:10am by an administrator/moderator *
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#
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JIMNLIN
Oklahoma
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NPRM DOT Docket No. NHTSA-2007-0040
RIN 2127-AJ57
page 68454
(snipped for length)
NHTSA's Office of Vehicle
Safety Compliance (OVSC) enforces current NHTSA regulations and will
enforce the requirements in this final rule when it becomes effective.
We note that actual RV crash data specific to crashes where an
overloaded RV is a contributing factor are rare.** end of quote
Wrecks while pulling a trailer can be contributed to many reasons not related to a actual over loaded vehicle.
DW-gray wrote:One of your points was "The 14k is to keep the truck in the class 3." How do you know that? Where is a document with that claim? Do you have a document stating that the truck in has been derated? If so, how much?
I didn't make that statement about 14k class of truck being derated.
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Cummins12V98
on the road
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"One of your points was "The 14k is to keep the truck in the class 3." How do you know that? Where is a document with that claim? Do you have a document stating that the truck in has been derated? If so, how much? "
I have NO proof other than as I have explained before. How can they have a RAWR of 9,750# and simply not add a pound to the unloaded FAW of around 5,100# without going OVER the GVWR???
I am within FAWR and at RAWR and within GCVWR. There is not a Law Enforcement Agency that will give me a ticket unless I don't have the tonnage to cover my trucks GVW.
You think any of those test results would change with a 37,800# "rated" combined load if the truck was at 14K or 15K?
If anyone wants to stay at 14K you really are not going to be hauling a very large 5er.
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"
"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600
2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable
2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD
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avvidclif1
Texas
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Go to here and get educated about the classes. It's not fiction or a fantasy. My CU will not finance over a Class 3. Just one thing it applies to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification
Clif & Millie
2009 Ford F350 SRW CC Lariat 6.4 Diesel
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bpounds
Sophmore Brain...
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avvidclif1 wrote:Go to here and get educated about the classes. It's not fiction or a fantasy. My CU will not finance over a Class 3. Just one thing it applies to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification
That is a good article, but...
"This article is about commercial truck classifications. For passenger car and pickup classifications, see Car classifications."
And then it goes on to list all of the various pickup truck examples. And when you go to the Car Classifications link, there isn't much info on pickups.
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DW-gray
Lompoc, CA
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Cummins12V98 wrote:If anyone wants to stay at 14K you really are not going to be hauling a very large 5er.
Ford and Ram have one-ton dually trucks with 14K GVWR. Depending on the style and GVW, these trucks could realistically tow 23.3K to 27.5K fifth wheel. Are there any fifth wheel RVs with a GVWR more than that?
If anyone has a heavier 5th wheel, I hope they are towing with an MDT or HDT.
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