tluxon
Kirkland, WA
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Joined: 08/12/2001
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Milt, every time we try to "carry on" you bring back the picture of your come-along setup. Are you bitter about the bent pin or something? ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
It wouldn't have mattered if you had applied 100 TONS of force - the whole hitch might have bent into a pretzel, but I think you might be the only one here who thinks that your experiment PROVES that no trans-rotation can happen in response to force from ANY direction, namely tangent to the linkage-restricted path (which is never at a fixed angle, BTW).
Cheers,
Tim
Tim -
wife Beverly & 2 boys who love camping
2002 K2500 Suburban 8.1L 4.10 Prodigy
2005 Sunnybrook 30FKS HP Dual Cam
Replaced 2000 Sunnybrook 26FK on 8/6/04
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AO_hitech
SF Bay Area
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Joined: 08/09/2004
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Stressor wrote:As I stated before, patent documents will say just about anything to secure a patent.
And marking literature is more accurate...
Patent documents are written as vague as possible. This one seemed fairly clear.
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Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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Joined: 12/27/2003
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A Test of the Rigid One Way Hinge (RowH) Hypothesis
I got to thinking -- if one can rig up a "demonstration" to show that the Hensley Arrow is a Rigid one way Hinge, perhaps I can "prove" that a simple two-leaf door hinge also is a RowH. I actually performed this test, but have no "proof" photos to post because I do not have a digital camera. However, anyone can duplicate this test in the privacy of his own home. A "supporting diagram" follows the discussion of the test.
Test # 1 -- I opened an outside door to a 45 degree angle. Then, I attached a rope to the two door knobs and pulled as hard as I could at a 45 degree angle. The hinge must have locked. The door did not swing a bit. The hinge was rigid.
Test # 2 -- Wanting to be fair, I decided I should test pulling at more than one angle. I attached a 30-inch bar clamp (the yellow object) to the edge of the door. I then tied the rope to the end of the bar and pulled at an angle of 90 degrees to the wall. Again the door did not swing. Obviously, even with a change of pulling angle, the hinge remained locked. The hinge was rigid.
Test # 3 -- Then I decided to see if it would make a difference if the pulling was initiated from inside the house rather than from outside the house. I reversed the direction of the bar clamp and pulled at an angle of minus 90 degrees. To my surprise, the door swung freely with almost no force on the rope. The hinge was not rigid.
I submit that this is proof that this simple door hinge is a RowH. Initiate the pull on the door from the outside and the hinge is locked. Initiate the pull from the inside and the hinge is free.
Rigid one way Hinge, "RowH". I like that acronym. It reminds me of being in the eighth row of a theatre -- a place where elaborate fictitious productions are staged. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/awink.gif "awink")
![[image]](http://www.geocities.com/trailerphysics/hensleylock1.bmp)
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Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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Joined: 12/27/2003
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Okay, let me see if I've got this straight.
1. The HA does not reduce the magnitude of the lateral loads applied by the TT.
2. The HA does not move the point of application of lateral load closer to the TV's rear axle.
3. Therefore, the HA does not reduce the "steering moment" imposed by the TT on the TV.
4. The secret of the HA's ability to control sway lies in the fact that the 4-bar linkage locks up when the TT exerts a substantial tension/pulling force on the TV.
5. The HA unlocks when the TT is not pulling against the TV.
How am I doing so far, Milt?
So, when the "tension/pulling" force is removed from the linkage, the HA unlocks and looses its sway control capability. Let's say a TV/TT with a HA is descending a steep grade. Speed builds up and the driver applies the brakes only to realize that the TT brakes are not working properly. The substantial "tension/pulling" force which is required to make the HA "lock up" does not exist. Since the HA is not "locked up", it loses its sway control capability and the rig is now speeding downhill with no sway control.
Milt, is this a correct assessment of the HA's "lock up" feature? If not, can you please explain how it works. Perhaps there is a theory published somewhere that you could share with us.
Ron
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drfife
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Joined: 11/02/2002
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Ron Gratz wrote:...Let's say a TV/TT with a HA is descending a steep grade. Speed builds up and the driver applies the brakes only to realize that the TT brakes are not working properly. The substantial "tension/pulling" force which is required to make the HA "lock up" does not exist. Since the HA is not "locked up", it loses its sway control capability and the rig is now speeding downhill with no sway control...
Yes Ron, that is what can occur.
Read the threads about the Hensley "bump" when descending grades and using the transmission as a brake.
I've not heard or read of any sway issues while descending a grade. The only time the linkage can catch up to the tow vehicle is when the trailer's momentum exceeds the tow vehicle's momentum.
Russell
'12 GMC Sierra 3500HD SRW
'13 Excel Winslow 34IKE
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Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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Joined: 12/27/2003
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drfife wrote:Read the threads about the Hensley "bump" when descending grades and using the transmission as a brake.
I've not heard or read of any sway issues while descending a grade. The only time the linkage can catch up to the tow vehicle is when the trailer's momentum exceeds the tow vehicle's momentum.
Russell,
I've not read of any sway issues either. That's because the HA does not rely on any "lockage" of its 4-bar linkage to achieve its sway control characteristics.
Ron
The HA does not "lock up".
The HA does not prevent the trailer from swinging.
Lateral forces on the TT's tires control the swinging.
The HA works by reducing the magnitude of lateral force and by moving the effective point of application closer to the TV's rear axle. This significantly reduces the ability of the TT to "steer" the TV.
This, alone, is sufficient to explain the HA's anti-sway capabilities.
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willald
NC
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Joined: 07/15/2002
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Ron Gratz wrote:I've not read of any sway issues either. That's because the HA does not rely on any "lockage" of its 4-bar linkage to achieve its sway control characteristics.
Ron
The HA does not "lock up".
The HA does not prevent the trailer from swinging.
Lateral forces on the TT's tires control the swinging.
The HA works by reducing the magnitude of lateral force and by moving the effective point of application closer to the TV's rear axle. This significantly reduces the ability of the TT to "steer" the TV.
This, alone, is sufficient to explain the HA's anti-sway capabilities.
I think a more accurate summarization would be more like this:
1. The HA does not "lock up", but due to the arc/path through which the linkage pivots, it has the effect of essentially locking out movement from the trailer's perspective, when being pulled.
2. The HA does not prevent the trailer from swinging, when the tension/pulling on the Hensley is not present.
3. Lateral forces on the TT's tires control the swinging.
4. The HA works by reducing the magnitude of lateral force and by moving the effective point of application closer to the TV's rear axle. This significantly reduces the ability of the TT to "steer" the TV.
This summarizes the HA's anti-sway capabilities.
However, I don't think Ron is going to accept this, until one of us builds the model we talked about earlier, where we mount a Hensley vertically, and hang a heavy weight below it, to simluate the 'pull' on the Hensley.
Now, Ron, if you and Tim DO agree with what I just summarized, then I think we can finally put this thread to rest, and find something else to discuss for 300 more posts.
Will
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BurbMan
Indianapolis, IN
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Joined: 09/20/2001
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Keep beating the horse. Even though it stopped breathing long ago, its lungs are not locked, theoretically enabling it to breathe at some future point under some not-yet-tested conditions. We cannot proclaim the horse as "dead" until we can ascertain beyond all doubt that it is unable to breathe under any circumstances.
Meanwhile, continued beating renders the horse unrecognizable as we struggle to agree on when the horse can/should be proclaimed "dead".
Here we go to page 36!
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Stressor
Whitefish Bay, Wisconsin
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Joined: 05/29/2001
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![[image]](http://home.ripway.com/2005-1/238631/Folder%20Name/Hensleytext006.JPG)
This picture proves, real world, inarguably, that the Hensley hitch locks up from the travel trailer end.
This is what Hensley states.
Any statements to the contrary are extraordinary, and will need some extraordinary proofs, under the rules of the liberal scientific method. Such proofs are lacking in this thread, Tluxon, there are a lot of red herrings and proofs by assertion, but no answer to the photograph, not one. All forces from the trailer are applied to the hitch head by pushing the struts, and the photograph proves, by simulating a 4000 pound push on the left strut connection by a 4000 pound pull on the right connection, that the hitch is locked up, and that it will be destroyed before it unlocks.
This makes the Ron Gratz imaginary hitch assertion that the hitch does not lock up, False.
Ron Gratz, and others, also continue to fail to differentiate between tow vehicle inputs and travel trailer inputs.
As I have repeatedly pointed out, the virtual pivot point is applicable only if the towing vehicle is initiating the directional change. Unless you can get it through your heads that the Hensley is a unidirectional device, you will continue to describe an imaginary hitch.
As for Ron's ongoing nonsense in this direction, I refer him back to my illustrations regarding the hitch and the explanations that accompany them. If he wants, I will conduct a class for him with a real Hensley Arrow hitch.
There certainly is a virtual pivot point, and it matters only when the tow vehicle is turning. It has further use, in that it provides the third pivot point that causes the linkage to lock. It just isn't the virtual pivot point that the Ron Gratz imaginary hitch has.
Ron asserts, without proof:
The HA does not "lock up".
My Hensley Arrow does, and here is proof that it does. Hensley also states that it does.
The HA does not prevent the trailer from swinging.
Another Ron Gratz imaginary hitch statement. The photograph provides absolute proof that it is locked up, and that will certainly prevent any swinging. If you wish, you may falsify this by simply loosening the struts and observing the trailer swinging. Again, when presented with experimental proof, Ron ignores the liberal scientific method, and continues to make assertions. That is all he can do, he does not have a hitch to experiment with.
Lateral forces on the TT's tires control the swinging.
The photograph shows that the hitch is locked up without tires. The statement is a red herring, as travel trailer tires are not necessary at all, nor is a travel trailer for that matter. The hitch works hanging in free air.
The HA works by reducing the magnitude of lateral force and by moving the effective point of application closer to the TV's rear axle. This significantly reduces the ability of the TT to "steer" the TV. This, alone, is sufficient to explain the HA's anti-sway capabilities.
If the Hensley Arrow is locked up, any lateral force is necessarily transmitted to the whole tow vehicle, through the receiver, and vehicle frame, as there is no pivoting taking place at any point. The picture, and the Hensley website statements and explanations, proves the hitch is locked up. This fact, proven and demonstrated, prevents the TT steering the TV.
Deal with the real world, as represented by this picture. Make no assertions without proofs and falsifiability.
Milton Findley (and Kerene)
A small piece of my mind...
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tluxon
Kirkland, WA
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Milt, you're getting delusional. The picture you repeatedly post proves nothing close to your conclusions. Repeating the same thing over and over has apparently hypnotized your mind. Please take a few long, deep breaths. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
Tim
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