thomas malenich
sound beach, new york 11789
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The tongue weight of a travel trailer is the result of how the trailer is loaded, and a properly loaded trailer will have about 60% of the weight ahead of the axle and 40% of the weight behind the axle. When loaded this way, a typical trailer will have around 15% of its weight on the tongue. It's not the light tongue weight, per se, that causes sway. It's the improperly loaded trailer with too much weight in the back that is the problem. A Weight distributing hitch (WDH) does nothing to change how the trailer is loaded. Besides ensuring proper loading of the trailer, tongue weight is also important to determine whether the TV receiver is adequate for the trailer.
Batmovan,
I like your summary except for just a couple of things. A light tongue can cause sway - one could interpret your sentence(above in red) to mean that a light tongue cannot cause sway, only improper loading. Sometimes people do load everything in the front and the tongue is still light. So even with proper loading you can still have a light tongue. Also there is no mention of what percentage is too light.
Second you don't mention that axle location also determines the tongue weight (in addition to loading). Other than that I like it. Tom
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Thomas and Laura Malenich
1988 Suburban 1500, 4WD
Scotty 16 1/2' , smaller and loving it
2 kids and 3 dogs
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Batmovan
Virginia
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Thomas,
I did not summarize anything. You must be thinking of Ken's. Family life is slowing down my post times, I don’t feel guilty though.
Your structure being set up with a set of definitions to help lay foundation for the summary is a great idea.
For the summery we should back up a little and think about just a couple more things.
- What is the title? The thread is “weight distribution… how does it work” lets try to stay away from “sway” unless we are changing the title. Of course it will have to mentioned but not focused on.
- What is the focus of the topic? WD science is what I learned here not what causes sway even though sway got things rolling.
- Definitions of key terms. I.e.: TW, HW, COG, etc….. What ever is mentioned in the summery?
- Manufacture definitions 1 or 2 the easiest to expand on.
- Expansion of the manufactures definitions this should be the Meat of the post…..
- Formulas but not an explanation of the formula should be included.
- We have to agree with and back up Ron’s formulas.
- The graphic would be nice if it can be resized and still be clear.
Please accept my apologies to those who read this as it turns into “Batmovan’s Thoughts on How to Write a Summery” instead of the Most Wonderful Technical Post I have Read Yet.
Ford E350
7.3L Diesel: Six Gun, Transcommand, K&N, Apillar guages, Prodigy
GVWR: 8,700, GCWR: 16,000
Jayco 31Bhs, Reese Dual Cam HP
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Dubbed the "BATMOVAN" by my 8 year old
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thomas malenich
sound beach, new york 11789
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Quote:Thomas,
I did not summarize anything. You must be thinking of Ken's.
Sorry about that!
Family life is slowing down my post times, I don’t feel guilty though.
Your structure being set up with a set of definitions to help lay foundation for the summary is a great idea.
For the summery we should back up a little and think about just a couple more things.
- What is the title? The thread is “weight distribution… how does it work” lets try to stay away from “sway” unless we are changing the title. Of course it will have to mentioned but not focused on.
I hate to stray from Ron's original topic name but we might want to add tongue weight in there since it was a major focus. I agree we should not speak much about sway.
- What is the focus of the topic? WD science is what I learned here not what causes sway even though sway got things rolling.
- Definitions of key terms. I.e.: TW, HW, COG, etc….. What ever is mentioned in the summery?
- Manufacture definitions 1 or 2 the easiest to expand on.
- Expansion of the manufactures definitions this should be the Meat of the post…..
Agree with this too - I am with you
- Formulas but not an explanation of the formula should be included.
- We have to agree with and back up Ron’s formulas.
- The graphic would be nice if it can be resized and still be clear.
Perhaps we could get Ron to summarize his initial post and include the initial drawing.
Please accept my apologies to those who read this as it turns into “Batmovan’s Thoughts on How to Write a Summery” instead of the Most Wonderful Technical Post I have Read Yet.
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thomas malenich
sound beach, new york 11789
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My proposed summary:
A weight distribution (WD)system distributes some of the weight or load from the rear axle of a tow vehicle to the front axle and to the trailer's axle(s). It does this by the force of the tensioners or spring bars applying leverage. A WD system does not lighten the tongue and does not change the percentage of a given trailer's tongue weight (measured prior to connection with a tow vehicle). The recommended tongue weight percentage range is 12% to 15%.
Think of a WD system as re-leveling the tow vehicle and trailer. When the trailer tongue is connected to the ball of a receiver, the rear axle bears much of the tongue weight. This raises the front of the tow vehicle and lowers the front of the trailer. The WD system works to distribute that rear axle load in order to re-level the tow vehicle and trailer. This will reestablish the tow vehicles original axle load ratio as designed by the manufacturer as to provide normal steering and braking control. A WD system does reduce the load on the receiver and by doing so increases the capacity of the receiver.
A WD system does not necessarily provide sway control unless the manufacturer incorporates this into the design.
Use the following link for a detailed explanation of how a WD system works, by Ron Gratz and an interesting discussion on the topic.
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/14265335.cfm
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BarneyS
S.E. Lower Michigan
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Tom,
You said:
"Equal-i-zer brand hitch is an example of a WD system that incorporates sway control."
I like your summary except for the mention of the Equal-i-zer hitch. I really don't think that mention of any brand name is necessary. Your last paragraph stands well on it's own without the mention of the Equal-i-zer.
2004 Sunnybrook Titan 30FKS TT
Hensley "Arrow" 1400# hitch (Sold)
Not towing now.
Former tow vehicles were 2016 Ram 2500 CTD, 2002 Ford F250, 7.3 PSD, 1997 Ram 2500 5.9 gas engine
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thomas malenich
sound beach, new york 11789
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Hi Barney,
Yes your right, it is unnecessary - I was wondering if it was a mistake to use a brand name. We certainly are not in the business of marketing. I was just trying to provide an example. I will delete it.
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Ron Gratz
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Wow, you guys have really been busy. I almost feel guilty for enjoying a week on beautiful Lake of the Woods without having a single nit to pick.
The week's absence has given me the opportunity to view the second half of this thread almost as an "outsider" might. Given that the number of posts now exceeds 135, I fully agree that a summary is in order. As originator of the topic, I have the privilege of editing the initial post and would like to place a consensus summary at the opening of that post.
I think our most important audience are those New Members who are using the ORF Search feature to find information about using a WD hitch. I also think our objective should be to encourage them to use a WD hitch when appropriate. In trying to figure out how best to get our message across, I have envisioned the following dialog between New Member and Senior Member (note: I have chosen "Senior Member" not because they are wisest and most experienced, but rather because they seem to have the most to say).
NM: Why do I need a WD hitch?
SM: Because, when you hook your TT to your TV, the TT’s tongue weight on the hitch causes an increased load on the TV’s rear axle and a decreased load on the TV’s front axle.
NM: Why is that bad?
SM: The increased rear axle load might exceed that axle’s load rating. Perhaps more importantly, the decreased front axle load might cause diminished steering response and braking action.
NM: How does the WD hitch change that?
SM: The WD hitch changes the amount of load carried on each of the TV/TT axles. The TV’s rear axle load is decreased and the TV’s front axle load and the TT’s axle(s) load are increased.
NM: I’ve heard you need a certain amount of tongue weight for sway stability. Does the WD hitch change the tongue weight?
SM: No, the tongue weight remains the same. The WD hitch simply changes the way the total weight of TV and TT is carried by the TV and TT axles.
How would all of you respond to this New Member's questions? If we can agree on the best way to respond, then I think we have the summary we are looking for.
It's good to be back on the Forum.
Ron
On edit: Added phrase, "when appropriate", to third paragraph.
* This post was
edited 09/10/04 09:38am by Ron Gratz *
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thomas malenich
sound beach, new york 11789
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Welcome back Ron. We missed you ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink") I think that my summary actually answers all of the questions your new member is asking. However I will answer each of the questions separately. I would be a little more long winded when actually talking to an individual though.
NM: Why do I need a WD hitch?
SM: Because, when your trailer tongue is connected to your tow vehicle, the rear axle will bear much of the tongue weight. This increased load on your TV's rear axle causes a decreased load on your TV's front axle. If the load changes are great enough to significantly throw off the axle load ratios as designed by the manufacturer, you would need a WD hitch.
Because, when you hook your TT to your TV, the TT’s tongue weight on the hitch causes an increased load on the TV’s rear axle and a decreased load on the TV’s front axle.
NM: Why is that bad?
SM: There are three reasons why this can be bad. First, the decreased load on the front axle can cause a loss of steering control and braking difficulties. Secondly, The increased load on your rear axle may be enough to exceed that axle's weight rating. Thirdly, the increased load on your receiver may be enough to exceed the weight rating of the receiver.
The increased rear axle load might exceed that axle’s load rating. Perhaps more importantly, the decreased front axle load might cause diminished steering response and braking action.
NM: How does the WD hitch change that?
SM: Think of a WD hitch as re-leveling the tow vehicle and trailer.
A weight distribution hitch distributes some of the weight or load from the rear axle of a tow vehicle to the front axle and to the trailer's axle(s). It does this by the force of the tensioners or spring bars applying leverage.
This will reestablish the tow vehicles original axle load ratio as designed by the manufacturer as to provide normal steering and braking control. A WD system also reduces the load on the receiver and by doing so increases the capacity of the receiver.
The WD hitch changes the amount of load carried on each of the TV/TT axles. The TV’s rear axle load is decreased and the TV’s front axle load and the TT’s axle(s) load are increased.
NM: I’ve heard you need a certain amount of tongue weight for sway stability. Does the WD hitch change the tongue weight?
SM: No, a WD hitch does not change the tongue weight. You should strive to achieve between 12% and 15% tongue weight primarily by proper loading.
No, the tongue weight remains the same. The WD hitch simply changes the way the total weight of TV and TT is carried by the TV and TT axles.
* This post was
edited 09/10/04 06:55am by thomas malenich *
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Ron Gratz
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Maybe we are not yet ready for a summary. Perhaps we first need to have an agreed definition for "tongue weight".
In another topic, the originator asked the question, "How do you know what your tongue weight is?" Two of the responses were:
Quote:--- First, I had the van weighed full of people and gas (front axle # and rear axle # weights which together make total van gross or curb weight)
Then had the van and trailer weighed (with the weight bars done up)
Subtract the vans axle weights from from van and trailer weight.
and
Quote:Lots of ways to do this. I weighed the truck alone. I then hooked up and weighed the rig. The increase in the trucks axle weights equals the tongue weight, and it shows how much weight is being transferred by the weight distribution system.
What it does not show is the actual dead weight of the tongue, and I still do not know what that is exactly, although I could lower the tongue jack until the stinger has play in it and then detension the weight bars to find out. The decrease in the truck weight or the increase in the trailer weight would then equal the tongue weight. ---
On edit: and yet another definition from the same topic
Quote:Remember to add in the weight of the hitch, or anything else in the tow vehicles receiver. ---
In the second quote, the term "actual dead weight of the tongue" is used. Have not seen that one before.
I might be a little dense after a week off, but I do not see how either of these two recommended methods measures the tongue weight. Can anyone explain?
Ron
* This post was
edited 09/09/04 09:30pm by Ron Gratz *
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thomas malenich
sound beach, new york 11789
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WOW ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/eek.gif "eek") I'd like to pretend I didn't read that right now. Unfortunately no matter what we do here there will always be confusion and misunderstanding. I think all of our summaries are still look'in pretty darn good.
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