thomas malenich
sound beach, new york 11789
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I think the manufacturers view is this: When you put 900#s of tongue weight on the ball of a TV, the rear axle drops as weight is increased because of THAT tongue weight. That is their justification for saying that the tongue weight "gets carried on the rear axle."
We could think of the rear axle as "replacing" the tongue jack and the receiver as "extending" the tongue. The WD system now distributes or transfers the weight/load on the rear axle to the front axle and the trailers axles.
Again from Equal-i-zer: With ordinary ball-type hitches, most of the trailer tongue-weight gets carried on the back axle of the tow vehicle, often this raises the front end of the vehicle. The Equal-i-zer transfers the trailer's tongue-weight evenly to all the axles of the tow vehicle.
It would not sound right if they said: With ordinary ball-type hitches, most of the trailer's reaction gets relocated and is carried on the back axle of the tow vehicle, often this raises the front end of the vehicle. The Equal-i-zer transfers the trailer's relocted reaction evenly to all the axles of the tow vehicle.
Thomas and Laura Malenich
1988 Suburban 1500, 4WD
Scotty 16 1/2' , smaller and loving it
2 kids and 3 dogs
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tluxon
Kirkland, WA
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Quote:thomas malenich wrote:
...
It would not sound right if they said: With ordinary ball-type hitches, most of the trailer's reaction gets relocated and is carried on the back axle of the tow vehicle, often this raises the front end of the vehicle. The Equal-i-zer transfers the trailer's relocted reaction evenly to all the axles of the tow vehicle.
Exactly right. That's because it's the ground and its interface with the wheels that are reacting to the trailer (and tow vehicle), not vice versa.
Tim -
wife Beverly & 2 boys who love camping
2002 K2500 Suburban 8.1L 4.10 Prodigy
2005 Sunnybrook 30FKS HP Dual Cam
Replaced 2000 Sunnybrook 26FK on 8/6/04
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Batmovan
Virginia
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Quote:I think the manufacturers view is this:.... The manufactures view point is probably not the view point of their engineers. Their statements are more than likely designed to help the layman understand WD system easily. If you are trying to sell hitches you probably want to keep it simple. Additionally if this is going to be tagged at the top of a forum (as suggested) for Newbies to read it should read well and be easy to understand.
Ford E350
7.3L Diesel: Six Gun, Transcommand, K&N, Apillar guages, Prodigy
GVWR: 8,700, GCWR: 16,000
Jayco 31Bhs, Reese Dual Cam HP
Wife and six children (1 set of triplets)
Dubbed the "BATMOVAN" by my 8 year old
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thomas malenich
sound beach, new york 11789
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The manufactures view point is probably not the view point of their engineers. Their statements are more than likely designed to help the layman understand WD system easily.
____________________________________________________________________
Batmovan,
Ya, your are right. So have we gone full circle back to thinking it is OK to say "tongue weight gets distributed". ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/eek.gif "eek")
I knew I was right from the very beginning. LOL ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/tongue.gif "tongue")
Somebody help me!! ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/rolleyes.gif "rolleyes")
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Batmovan
Virginia
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IMHO: I believe we should not redefine terminology or the WD system. We should try and truncate this post into a couple of paragraphs. Then a seeker of knowledge can understand the WD system better without having to read through 106+ posts.
Use a couple of manufactures definitions then expand on them. Then have a link at the end to the post that started it all for expanded reference. This is just a suggestion.
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BarneyS
S.E. Lower Michigan
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Batmovan,
What you just suggested is what I am hoping will happen to this thread. It has been one of the most interesting and informative threads I have seen on the forums. I think, if after it is all hashed out and everyone (I hope!) comes to agreement on the terms, someone will summarize into one or two paragraphs which I will then petition the Admin to make sticky at the top of the Towing forum. I like your idea of a link to this long discussion also.
Keep it up guys! ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
Barney
2004 Sunnybrook Titan 30FKS TT
Hensley "Arrow" 1400# hitch (Sold)
Not towing now.
Former tow vehicles were 2016 Ram 2500 CTD, 2002 Ford F250, 7.3 PSD, 1997 Ram 2500 5.9 gas engine
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4runnerguy
Glenwood Springs, CO
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Batmovan:
I agree 100%. We keep going around and around about the tongue weight getting distributed by a WDH or various other definitions.
To recap: the reason Ron made the original posting was that ffrnemtp (Doug) had felt his tongue weight had been lessened by his WDH and that was the cause of his sway. As Ron pointed out with the diagram on the initial post, all a WDH hitch does is remove load from the TV’s rear axle and through the use of levers, applies it to the TV front axle and the trailer axle(s). Now indeed part of the load on the rear axle results from placing the trailer on the hitch and the transmission of the tongue weight to the ground through the rear axle. But as the calculations show, the amount of weight moved around by the WDH bars has nothing to do with the tongue weight. Manufacturers literature will of course refer to redistributing the tongue weight evenly to all axles because it is when the trailer is attached to the hitch that the rear axle begins to sag.
As I mentioned above, the tongue weight is simple a result of how the trailer is loaded, and a properly loaded trailer will have around 15% of its weight on the tongue. Again I repeat: It's not the light tongue weight, per se, that causes sway. It's the improperly loaded trailer with too much weight in the back that is the problem. A WDH does nothing to change how the trailer is loaded. So Doug’s problem was not caused by the WDH further lightening an already light tongue load, as he proposed.
I just got back from a bike ride and had been writing a summary in my head as I rode, so I’ll post that next.
Ken & Allison
2 Camping Cats (1 diabetic)
1996 4Runner, TRD Supercharger, Edelbrock headers
2007 Fleetwood Arcadia, Honda EU2000i
4 mountain bikes, 1 canoe, 4 tents, 8 sleeping bags, 2 backpacks
(You get the idea!)
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4runnerguy
Glenwood Springs, CO
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To summarize what we've discussed here, omitting the technical details:
The tongue weight of a travel trailer is the result of how the trailer is loaded, and a properly loaded trailer will have about 60% of the weight ahead of the axle and 40% of the weight behind the axle. When loaded this way, a typical trailer will have around 15% of its weight on the tongue. It's not the light tongue weight, per se, that causes sway. It's the improperly loaded trailer with too much weight in the back that is the problem. A Weight distributing hitch (WDH) does nothing to change how the trailer is loaded. Besides ensuring proper loading of the trailer, tongue weight is also important to determine whether the TV receiver is adequate for the trailer.
WDH apply leverage between the towing vehicle and trailer causing the tongue weight to be carried by all axles of the tow vehicle and trailer. This allows trailers with greater tongue weights to be towed and results in a more level ride which reduces stress on the rear of the tow vehicle and provides greater steering and brake control.
A WDH does little to reduce sway. Use of one of the various types of sway control, with or without a WDH, is recommended if sway if a problem. Some WDH, such as Equal-i-zer, have an integral sway control.
Not all vehicles or all trailers are designed to be used with WDH. Check your owners manual.
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tluxon
Kirkland, WA
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That looks great, Ken!
This whole thread is already linked in the FAQ (http://www.rv.net/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/264829.cfm). I'd rather put Ken's "summary" into the FAQ with a link to this thread if people want the verbose discussion.
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thomas malenich
sound beach, new york 11789
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Quote:Batmovan,
What you just suggested is what I am hoping will happen to this thread. It has been one of the most interesting and informative threads I have seen on the forums. I think, if after it is all hashed out and everyone (I hope!) comes to agreement on the terms, someone will summarize into one or two paragraphs which I will then petition the Admin to make sticky at the top of the Towing forum. I like your idea of a link to this long discussion also.
Keep it up guys!
Barney
This would be a good ending to a long story with many chapters all having many interesting twists. 4runnerguy, I like your summaries.
If I had to choose and ending/sticky I might use (or slightly modify) one of the manufacturers definitions and then expand on it/clarify it with the knowledge gained by this thread. I now think it is important to use a manufacturer's definition because they were designed for the layman to understand and those are the definitions people will see when they research WD hitch systems like Equal-i-zer and Reese Dual Cam.
I would define tongue weight, then the WD system, and then add our 2 cents to look something like this:
TONGUE WEIGHT
Tongue weight, as a percentage of total trailer weight, is a measure of the relative location of the trailer's center of gravity. Axle location and trailer loading directly affect tongue weight. Desired tongue weight to minimize sway is 12% to 15%.
WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM
A hitch system built around a receiver hitch, which includes supplemental equipment such as spring bars that work to distribute trailer tongue loads to the trailer axle(s) and the tow vehicle front axle. Use of a weight distribution system enhances handling and braking and increases trailer towing capacity beyond what is recommended when a weight carrying hitch is used.
NOTE:
Use of a WD system does not reduce or change the original tongue weight and will not "lighten" the tongue causing sway. A WD system does reduce the hitch weight to increase the capacity of the receiver.
* This post was
edited 09/09/04 06:04am by thomas malenich *
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