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Griff in Fairbanks

AK

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Posted: 06/06/18 09:11pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Some quick comments because I'm incredibly busy right now.

Narrow tires cut through fresh snow better to reach surfaces that provide traction. Wider tires tend to 'float' over the snow. Same goes for mud. If you lose traction, it means you need chains.

Narrow tires provide less rolling resistance, leading to an improvement in MPG. Wider tires have better load capacity.

The main (or only) concern with dual tire spacing is the possibility of the sidewalls coming in contact with each other. Tires spread out at the 'contact patch' with the 'road.' You need to make sure spacing is sufficient to avoid contact at that point. (Around 40 years ago, I was told you should be able to put your hand vertically between the tires, up to the heel of your palm.)

Fully inflated tires help prevent dual tire contact. Fully inflated tires also last longer, run cooler, and provide less rolling resistance. This is all why I prefer to keep my tires at the max inflation molded on the tire sidewalls.

Where you usually drive, in terms of weather and road conditions, vehicle weight, and how you drive all has a bearing on what's best for you. This is the basis for my tire selection ... and is very likely not appropriate for other people. (It'd take half a forum page to describe all the factors that went into my selection.)

Rim coining aligns the rim well enough on the hub. The alignment pins really didn't do much, which is why they were largely eliminated.

The coins on dual rims must 'nest.' The only problem I've ever seen is an idiot managing to mount the wheels with un-nested coining. (That person shouldn't have been allowed near a motor vehicle ... not even as a passenger, never mind a driver or maintainer.)


1970 Explorer Class A on a 1969 Dodge M300 chassis with 318 cu. in. (split year)
1972 Executive Class A on a Dodge M375 chassis with 413 cu. in.
1973 Explorer Class A on a Dodge RM350 (R4) chassis with 318 engine & tranny from 1970 Explorer Class A


Griff in Fairbanks

AK

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Posted: 06/06/18 09:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I forgot to add ... fully inflated tires provided significantly better traction on ice and rain-drenched pavement. In every case I've seen of spinning tires, skidding, slip-sliding around, and hydroplaning, where I had adequate traction, I've also seen under-inflated (or bald) tires.

j-d

Sunny Florida USA

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Posted: 06/06/18 09:49pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Griff in Fairbanks wrote:



Rim coining aligns the rim well enough on the hub. The alignment pins really didn't do much, which is why they were largely eliminated.

The coins on dual rims must 'nest.'


I've only seen the pins on rear hubs, to try to get the "technician" (policorrect speak for Tire Monkey, like "travel center" for Truck Stop) to get the inner and outer coined wheels into "nested" position.

Trivia: Our 1983 Ford E350 was interesting. Coined 16.5" wheels. So there were pins in the rear. If you looked carefully, you could see that every other nut sat deeper than its neighbor. The other trivia: The Left Rear Lugs were Left Hand Thread, but the Left Fronts were Right Hand. It paid to keep watch over the technicians to prevent chaos and damage.

In the 1984 chassis model year, the E350's got 16.5" hub piloted wheels, so swapping to 16" from later Fords was easy. We never switched.


If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB

StingrayL82

Nampa, Idaho

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Posted: 06/06/18 10:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DRTDEVL wrote:

...How is the spacing between the rear duals with the 225s? What wheels are you running?


I haven't checked the air in my tires, since I bought them last year, so I know they probably need to be aired up. That said, I have just over an inch of spacing between the tires, where they contact the pavement.


Fred
Retired Army Guy
2005 Monaco LaPalma 37PST
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8.1L Vortec
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DRTDEVL

SPAM Town, USA

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Posted: 06/07/18 07:09am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Another note on coining. There was a TSB sent out by Chrysler in the late 80s and renewed as late as 1993 involving vibration from improperly centered wheels on models with coined wheels and shouldered lug nuts. The "fix" was to issue all D350 owners 2 conical lug nuts to use during tire changes. The sequence, IIRC, was to put the conical nuts opposite one another and tighten to 50 lb-ft. Put 6 shouldered lug nuts on, tightening to 50 lb-ft. Replace the two conical nuts with the shouldered nuts, and tighten to 50 lb-ft. Then properly tighten all of them, in sequence, to 300 lb-ft.

Because of this, I purchased 2 conical lug nuts from O'Reilly's and keep them in the glove box.

NM, I found the TSB.
Quote:

Date: Apr. 6, 1992

THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 22-01-91 REV. A WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES.

Models:

1989-1992 (AD) Ram Pickup/Ram Cab & Chassis
Power Ram Cab & Chassis

THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO 350 SERIES AD MODELS WITH FLANGE TYPE LUG NUTS.

Symptoms:

A customer complaint of a wheel and tire vibration, at highway speeds, on smooth road surfaces. This condition may be caused by the wheels being off center on the wheel studs.

Diagnosis:

A properly centered wheel will have a balanced amount of space for each lug nut flange to the wheel center hole; an off center condition will show a variable amount of space. Perform a visual inspection and road test vehicle to verify condition.

Parts:

2 90° Cone Nuts 1273556

Repair Procedure:

This repair involves wheel centering procedure.

1. Raise the vehicle so that the tire(s) are off the ground. Do not remove the wheel(s) from the vehicle.

2. Loosen all lug nuts. Remove two (2) of the flange nuts 180* apart (do not discard). Use the positions with the largest flare surface for cone nut contact.

3. Replace the two (2) flange nuts with the 900 cone nuts, PN 1273556, and torque to 68 N-m (50 ft. lbs.).

4. Some loosening and tightening of the cone nuts and repositioning of the wheel might be necessary to obtain a centered wheel.

5. When centered, tighten the six (6) flange nuts and torque to 68 N-m (50 ft. lbs.). Replace the two (2) cone nuts with the flange nuts that were previously removed and torque to 68 N-m (50 ft. lbs.).

6. Torque all the flange nuts to 407-475 N-m (300-350 ft. lbs.) in an alternating pattern, Figure 1.
Wheel Lug Nut Tightening Pattern

Figure 1 link:
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1992/figures/22-02-92-f1.gif



7. Visually verify to see if the wheel is centered properly. Check tire air pressure to make sure it is properly inflated.

8. Repeat the procedure as necessary to assure all wheels are properly centered.

9. Road test vehicle to confirm your repair.

AS A COURTESY TO THE CUSTOMER, PLEASE PROVIDE THEM WITH THE CONE NUTS FOR FUTURE USE (EX. TIRE OR WHEEL REPLACEMENT).

NOTE: THE CONE NUTS SHOULD BE USED TO CENTER ALL WHEELS, FRONT OR REAR.

Notes:

POLICY: Reimbursable within the provisions of the warranty.

TIME ALLOWANCE:
Labor Operation No. 22-40-01-93 . . . . . . . . . . . 0.3 Hrs.

FAILURE CODE: 51 - Improperly installed



Resurrecting an inherited 1980 Minnie Winnie 20RG from the dead after sitting since 1998..


StingrayL82

Nampa, Idaho

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Posted: 06/07/18 08:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DRTDEVL wrote:

Another note on coining. There was a TSB sent out by Chrysler in the late 80s and renewed as late as 1993 involving vibration from improperly centered wheels on models with coined wheels and shouldered lug nuts. The "fix" was to issue all D350 owners 2 conical lug nuts to use during tire changes. The sequence, IIRC, was to put the conical nuts opposite one another and tighten to 50 lb-ft. Put 6 shouldered lug nuts on, tightening to 50 lb-ft. Replace the two conical nuts with the shouldered nuts, and tighten to 50 lb-ft. Then properly tighten all of them, in sequence, to 300 lb-ft.

Because of this, I purchased 2 conical lug nuts from O'Reilly's and keep them in the glove box.


I have this TSB saved on my laptop, but I don’t understand it, because my old 16.5” wheels and my new 16” wheels both fit nice and tight on the studs. There is no slop whatsoever, so the coins can’t help but to seat on each other.

StingrayL82

Nampa, Idaho

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Posted: 06/07/18 09:12am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

On a side note, these two pictures are the reason why I had to have the engine rebuilt. Nothing will kill an engine quicker than sitting. Notice they used the heck out of it for the first three years, though.

[image]

[image]

j-d

Sunny Florida USA

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Posted: 06/07/18 01:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Maybe you have hub-centered wheels, where the holes clear the studs but they don't center the wheels. The center hole and the hub do that. Do the nuts look like these?[image], where the actual nut rotates on a captive washer?

Griff in Fairbanks

AK

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Posted: 06/07/18 02:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

StingrayL82 wrote:

Nothing will kill an engine quicker than sitting.

One thing will save an engine that's been in storage for a long time. Changing the oil immediately before it's put in storage, even just for over the winter.

The hydrocarbons in combustion byproducts combine with moisture and turn into acids. These acids, in the engine's oil, are what eats away at engine parts while in storage. Changing oil removes the acids from the engine.

So, before putting the vehicle in storage, change the oil and oil filter. Run the engine for 3-5 minutes to completely circulate the fresh oil.

If you think the vehicle might be in storage for several years or more, change the oil and filter a second time and run the engine again for 3-5 minutes.

The first oil change will pick up some of the acids remaining in oil passage. The second oil change will remove the little remaining acids.

StingrayL82

Nampa, Idaho

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Posted: 06/07/18 04:49pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

j-d wrote:

Maybe you have hub-centered wheels, where the holes clear the studs but they don't center the wheels. The center hole and the hub do that. Do the nuts look like these?[image], where the actual nut rotates on a captive washer?


A little bit.

[image]

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