johnandlaurie
Everett, WA, USA
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Joined: 03/23/2004
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Well, we just went thru this...the bottom line for us is money. we had 10-15k to spend, and a 34ft 5'er, 'bout 12,500-13k down the road. In our price range the tow capability and GCWR of only a few was high enough... the older 454, or new dodge v10....seems like Ford had a big gasser also. Dodge diesel A/T wont do it, not the chevys in our price range. So Ford 7.3 TD was the choice, but also we knew this truck must last us 7 yrs min. Most of these diesels had close to 200k miles in our price range. We looked everywhere. A newer gasser (There were a couple rated high enough) would do, but even they had around 100k....7 more yrs??? Finally found a 1999 f350, DRW PS TD w/exhaust brake and brake controller....110k miles, got it for $15K. This truck is a dream to drive, and empty weight is under 6700lbs, gvwr is 11,200, and gcwr is 20,000. Where most diesels I drove were a little slugish around town, the turbo kicks on this one whenever you hit down on the pedal, and it just flys. This is the "funnest" vehicle I have ever driven. Anyway I'm sure the truck will go for 7 yrs, and we had a diesel mechanic go thru it, he was impressed. Financially this is what we needed, and it has the beef to pull our rig. We live near Seattle and i think the fuel is .10-.20 below gas prices. John
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upnorthandy
Rhinelander,Wi. USA
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Joined: 03/18/2004
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I have a 2001 Chev 2500HD 8.1L with allison. I have had as little as 8.9 and as high as 9.7, towing our Jayco 28FKS. Must of my towing is in Wisconsin and U.P. of Michigan. Alot of hills and two lanes roads. I would never look at a diesel as price for fuel in Wi. is the same for gas and diesel in the winter and only .14 cheaper in the summer for diesel. The extra up front money for the diesel would take me anywhere from 8.5 to 10 years to break even on the fuel alone.Based on $5600.00 more for that engine.
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A travel trailer guy
Lafayette, CO USA
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Joined: 04/06/2004
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Hello to Forum land:
If it flys, this will be my first "post" anywhere, so bear with me.
I'm adding my two cents worth to the diesel vs gas tow vehicle issue. I am limiting my comments to ordinary pickup trucks, not including anything more exotic than the 250/350, 2500/3500, series trucks.
First, I'm elimiting the fuel COST issue because it is almost always amortized out by the initial cost of the diesel, i.e., unless you buy a used vehicle or drive a new diesel more than 200,000 miles, you really won't realize a great savings. Also, I'm conceeding up front that the diesels generally pull stronger, but some consideration has to be given to the "coasting issue" for driving in the mountains (if you intend to stay in the low country, you don't need to consider this).
Next, all three big companies are touting quieter units. The new Cummins is probably the quietest, but I drove one all day for a test drive and it is still not quiet enough for me. Once you exceed 60-mph, towing or not, the noise is too much for an all day drive and if you like to listen to classical music (like I do when I'm traveling), forget it.
Next, the smell. The big three say the diesels don't smell as bad as they used to. Right, they don't, but I don't believe they are improved enough for a non-smoker to tolerate (again) for an all day drive. Next, which engine? I see the choices as: Dodge V-8/V-10 (gas), or Cummins (diesel); Ford V-10 (gas), or Power Stroke; GM V-8 (6L, 8.1L gas) or dura max. I left out other optional engines because they are not reasonable for towing anything over 8000lbs and for less than that, just use whatever is cheapest (that will do the job). Of these listed, I have only read about the 8.1L and the duramax; I have driven the others.
Here's my conclusion: If the smell or noise are not an issue for you, Buy the new Cummins, can't beat the bang for the buck. If you want a gas engine (as I do) then eliminate the GM 6L (really bad gas milage), and the Dodge Hemi V-8 (unless your towed unit is less than 7500lbs GVW). What I've been able to determine, so far, is that the 8.1L and the Dodge V-10 (available before 2004 model year) pull really well but the GM has some some early design/operating issues and uses more gas per mile when towing (actually, not very good when not towing; either, according to some reports).
Bottom line, my choice for the perfect tow vehicle is the Dodge V-10 with a six speed automatic Allison transmission. Unfortunately, Dodge doesn't make one, so I settled for a used 1998 Dodge 4X4 Quadcab with the V-10 and Dodge Automatic (purchase price, less than $14,000). I can set the cruise control at 60mph, lean back and listen to my classical music or have a conversation with my wife or just enjoy the ride while I pull my single slide full size travel trailer to just about any destination I choose (mountain, forest, or whatever). As you can tell; I feel my research paid off, and I'm pleased as punch with what I've got. My hope is that in a few years, Dodge will release the perfect tow vehicle I referenced above. Otherwise, I'll probably have to buy the 8.1L (with the Allison transmission) or maybe someone will actually make the perfect tow vehicle for us (financhally challenged) RVers who believe the TT/Pickup combination is the best all around combination, because you always have your home and sightseeing vehicle with you and don't have to make big-buck tire or maintence purchases.
I'm sure there is more to say, but if you have read this far, I'm sure you think I've said enough.
Thank's for listening.
More on this, later. Too new for me.
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Lone Eagle
Tremonton, Utah
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Joined: 03/13/2002
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No one on any forum I read has paid $5600 more for the Duramax than the 8.1. Not even close. Later! Frank
2002 2500HD Duramax/Allison
Juice 4.61 with MBRP 4" Exhaust
Racor Secondary Fuel Filter
ISSPRO Pyro & Boost Gauges
2002 Wildcat 27RL with
LT245X75X16 BFGs
B&W Turnover Ball
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SweetPete
Woodlands, TX (North of Houston)
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Joined: 06/28/2004
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Diesel vs. Gas...the battle goes on. I'm not sure what my next truck will be, but there is 1 thing I am sure of...It'll be a Ford
Happy trails!!
Pete
2004 F-250 SC XLT FX4 OFF ROAD 5.4L, camper package, snowplow prep and more.
1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4 5.2 V8
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SweetPete
Woodlands, TX (North of Houston)
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Joined: 06/28/2004
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Hey Travel Trailer Guy:
Next time, just give us the "cliff notes" version. Sheez. Just kidding. hehehe
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avreyes3
Ca. USA
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Joined: 03/05/2002
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My Buddy, a bartender told me four things he never talks about: Sports, religion, politics and Gas vrs. Diesel. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
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SweetPete
Woodlands, TX (North of Houston)
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Joined: 06/28/2004
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Hello everyone:
Just a question: Any probs having a diesel in the winter. Like, trouble starting? A guy I know has a '97 F-250 PSD and it's sometimes hard to turn over when it's pretty cold out. Is that typical and if so, any solutions?
Thanks
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sack1
Kent, WA
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Joined: 08/16/2002
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In this gas vs. diesel battle one thing (OK several) thing strikes me often. Many diesel owners like to make a quick quip that they'll never go back to gas. OK, but from what gas engine did you come? As people move up in size of their RVs there becomes the need to keep their tow vehicle in the right size/power range to handle their bigger/heavier trailers. I suspect most diesel owners have made their switch to diesel from a moderate size gas engine. Then the difference will be more profound. But isn't that like comparing apples to oranges? It's great that people like their rigs but to take simple statements such as the above and glean meaning from them seems suspect to me.
I'd be more inclined to listen to their reasoning if they had experience with today's gas engines, ones meant to tow in the same league as the diesels. An example that seems to point to this is the common statements coming from some diesel owners that their diesels don't have plugs, points, caps, rotors or distributors, etc. Do any modern gas engines use most of those items any longer? Not ours. That leads me to believe some of the longtime diesel faithful don't actually keep up with today's engines but they continue to hold the diesel torch all the same. Or the owners of 5+ year old diesels that say they likewise will never go back to a gasser and they state power and economy as their chief reasons. Well our gasser is more powerful than many of those models and is only a few mpg down while towing..AND, there wasn't the extra upfront cost of the diesel.
By simply stating one won't go back to gas needs to be quantified before it means anything to me
Seems sometimes I've stepped into a religious meeting or something on this forum!
'03 Chevy 2500HD 4x4, LT, Ext. cab, LB
8.1/Allison, 4.10
'03 32' 2955 Montana 5er
XM Radio/OnStar
Valley Hitch
Honda EU1000i
1984 VF700F Interceptor
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PSDExcursion
Millstone NJ
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Joined: 08/17/2001
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Quote:OK, but from what gas engine did you come?
I had a 454 DRW CC 3500 in the past and still have a 34 ft Coachmen motorhome with 454 Gale Banks Stage III kit P-30 chassis. The current diesels have 560-600 ft lbs of torque at 1600-2000 rpm and 30% better mpg than 8.1 that has 450 ft lb tq at 3200 rpm. The 8.1 is a good choice if you don't want to pay the up front cost and have shorter range. I am sure some are not happy campers with SB 8.1 pickups towing larger 5th wheels with only a 26 gallon tank.
2002 Chevy Express 3500 8.1 155" WB passenger van
41 Ft 2003 Thor Citation 41-ZBSR TT w/ Hensley Arrow
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