transamz9
Lawrenceburg Ky
Senior Member
Joined: 07/27/2010
View Profile
 Offline
|
Taco wrote:A B10 number is the design life of the engine. It is a number that supposedly 10% of the engines will have an engine internal breakdown in this number of miles. The B50 or 50% is usually not a huge amount after this number.
The number is higher on the duramax because it has a 20k mile longer design life. The idea that a diesel engine lasts forever hold some truck for a class 8 tractor or a locomotive or a diesel ship but for a pickup it doesn't hold water. Even lots of medium duty truck are running around with 300-350k design life engines. I believe the powerstroke is very similar design life to the duramax. The cummins in the ram may be longer, I know it is longer for the version of the engine that goes in the medium duty trucks but the one in the pickup has a hotter tune and may very well be a shorter life.
I guess what I'm getting at is when looking at the current fifth wheel towing guide for the 3500 GM, the max GCWR for the 6.0 gas with 4:10 is 20,500# and the max GCWR for the 6.6 with 3:73 is 30,500#. When doing the b10 do they figure these trucks at max for the miles, 50%, 10%? Because if you figure that a person grossing his 6.0 at 20,500# or he could buy the Duramax that is rated at 10,000# more. Those b10 would really start spreading out more. Make sense?
2016 Ram 3500 Mega Cab Limited/2013 Ram 3500 SRW Cummins(sold)/2005 RAM 2500 Cummins/2011 Sandpiper 345 RET (sold) 2015 Sanibel 3601/2008 Nitro Z9 Mercury 250 PRO XS the best motor made.
|
OhhWell
Florida
Senior Member
Joined: 06/27/2011
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
transamz9 wrote:Taco wrote:A B10 number is the design life of the engine. It is a number that supposedly 10% of the engines will have an engine internal breakdown in this number of miles. The B50 or 50% is usually not a huge amount after this number.
The number is higher on the duramax because it has a 20k mile longer design life. The idea that a diesel engine lasts forever hold some truck for a class 8 tractor or a locomotive or a diesel ship but for a pickup it doesn't hold water. Even lots of medium duty truck are running around with 300-350k design life engines. I believe the powerstroke is very similar design life to the duramax. The cummins in the ram may be longer, I know it is longer for the version of the engine that goes in the medium duty trucks but the one in the pickup has a hotter tune and may very well be a shorter life.
I guess what I'm getting at is when looking at the current fifth wheel towing guide for the 3500 GM, the max GCWR for the 6.0 gas with 4:10 is 20,500# and the max GCWR for the 6.6 with 3:73 is 30,500#. When doing the b10 do they figure these trucks at max for the miles, 50%, 10%? Because if you figure that a person grossing his 6.0 at 20,500# or he could buy the Duramax that is rated at 10,000# more. Those b10 would really start spreading out more. Make sense?
Makes sense. I don't know if I've ever seen GCVWR used in B10 statements. My initial assumption would be that it is assuming the curb weight of the base model with a single 150lbs driver and half a tank of gas....
1998 bounder 36s V10 F53
|
transamz9
Lawrenceburg Ky
Senior Member
Joined: 07/27/2010
View Profile
Offline
|
OhhWell wrote:transamz9 wrote:Taco wrote:A B10 number is the design life of the engine. It is a number that supposedly 10% of the engines will have an engine internal breakdown in this number of miles. The B50 or 50% is usually not a huge amount after this number.
The number is higher on the duramax because it has a 20k mile longer design life. The idea that a diesel engine lasts forever hold some truck for a class 8 tractor or a locomotive or a diesel ship but for a pickup it doesn't hold water. Even lots of medium duty truck are running around with 300-350k design life engines. I believe the powerstroke is very similar design life to the duramax. The cummins in the ram may be longer, I know it is longer for the version of the engine that goes in the medium duty trucks but the one in the pickup has a hotter tune and may very well be a shorter life.
I guess what I'm getting at is when looking at the current fifth wheel towing guide for the 3500 GM, the max GCWR for the 6.0 gas with 4:10 is 20,500# and the max GCWR for the 6.6 with 3:73 is 30,500#. When doing the b10 do they figure these trucks at max for the miles, 50%, 10%? Because if you figure that a person grossing his 6.0 at 20,500# or he could buy the Duramax that is rated at 10,000# more. Those b10 would really start spreading out more. Make sense?
Makes sense. I don't know if I've ever seen GCVWR used in B10 statements. My initial assumption would be that it is assuming the curb weight of the base model with a single 150lbs driver and half a tank of gas....
So they are saying that a 6.6 Duramax is only built to last 220,000 miles at it's lightest weight? WOW! How do we even make it to a 100,000 miles with these things towing our heavy campers and such?
|
rhagfo
Portland, OR
Senior Member
Joined: 07/06/2012
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
transamz9 wrote:OhhWell wrote:transamz9 wrote:Taco wrote:A B10 number is the design life of the engine. It is a number that supposedly 10% of the engines will have an engine internal breakdown in this number of miles. The B50 or 50% is usually not a huge amount after this number.
The number is higher on the duramax because it has a 20k mile longer design life. The idea that a diesel engine lasts forever hold some truck for a class 8 tractor or a locomotive or a diesel ship but for a pickup it doesn't hold water. Even lots of medium duty truck are running around with 300-350k design life engines. I believe the powerstroke is very similar design life to the duramax. The cummins in the ram may be longer, I know it is longer for the version of the engine that goes in the medium duty trucks but the one in the pickup has a hotter tune and may very well be a shorter life.
I guess what I'm getting at is when looking at the current fifth wheel towing guide for the 3500 GM, the max GCWR for the 6.0 gas with 4:10 is 20,500# and the max GCWR for the 6.6 with 3:73 is 30,500#. When doing the b10 do they figure these trucks at max for the miles, 50%, 10%? Because if you figure that a person grossing his 6.0 at 20,500# or he could buy the Duramax that is rated at 10,000# more. Those b10 would really start spreading out more. Make sense?
Makes sense. I don't know if I've ever seen GCVWR used in B10 statements. My initial assumption would be that it is assuming the curb weight of the base model with a single 150lbs driver and half a tank of gas....
So they are saying that a 6.6 Duramax is only built to last 220,000 miles at it's lightest weight? WOW! How do we even make it to a 100,000 miles with these things towing our heavy campers and such?
Defined:
B10 Life
The expected engine life, measured in miles of operation, before 10 percent of all engines in operation will require major repair(s), overhaul, or replacement.
Example: The 7.3L Power Stroke has a B10 life of 200,000 miles. Therefore, 10 percent of all engines in operation can be expected to require an overhaul at/near 200,000 miles.
B50 Life
The expected engine life, measured in miles of operation, before 50 percent of all engines in operation will require major repair(s), overhaul, or replacement.
Example: The 5.9L Cummins has a B50 life of 350,000 miles. Therefore, half of the engines in operation can be expected to require an overhaul at/near 350,000 miles.
An "overhaul" or "major repair" is considered a repair that requires removal of the cylinder heads or dropping of the oil pan. Failure/replacement of components that are accessible without removing the heads or dropping the oil pan do not attribute to B10/B50 life expectancy.
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#
"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"
|
OhhWell
Florida
Senior Member
Joined: 06/27/2011
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
rhagfo wrote:transamz9 wrote:OhhWell wrote:transamz9 wrote:Taco wrote:A B10 number is the design life of the engine. It is a number that supposedly 10% of the engines will have an engine internal breakdown in this number of miles. The B50 or 50% is usually not a huge amount after this number.
The number is higher on the duramax because it has a 20k mile longer design life. The idea that a diesel engine lasts forever hold some truck for a class 8 tractor or a locomotive or a diesel ship but for a pickup it doesn't hold water. Even lots of medium duty truck are running around with 300-350k design life engines. I believe the powerstroke is very similar design life to the duramax. The cummins in the ram may be longer, I know it is longer for the version of the engine that goes in the medium duty trucks but the one in the pickup has a hotter tune and may very well be a shorter life.
I guess what I'm getting at is when looking at the current fifth wheel towing guide for the 3500 GM, the max GCWR for the 6.0 gas with 4:10 is 20,500# and the max GCWR for the 6.6 with 3:73 is 30,500#. When doing the b10 do they figure these trucks at max for the miles, 50%, 10%? Because if you figure that a person grossing his 6.0 at 20,500# or he could buy the Duramax that is rated at 10,000# more. Those b10 would really start spreading out more. Make sense?
Makes sense. I don't know if I've ever seen GCVWR used in B10 statements. My initial assumption would be that it is assuming the curb weight of the base model with a single 150lbs driver and half a tank of gas....
So they are saying that a 6.6 Duramax is only built to last 220,000 miles at it's lightest weight? WOW! How do we even make it to a 100,000 miles with these things towing our heavy campers and such?
Defined:
B10 Life
The expected engine life, measured in miles of operation, before 10 percent of all engines in operation will require major repair(s), overhaul, or replacement.
Example: The 7.3L Power Stroke has a B10 life of 200,000 miles. Therefore, 10 percent of all engines in operation can be expected to require an overhaul at/near 200,000 miles.
B50 Life
The expected engine life, measured in miles of operation, before 50 percent of all engines in operation will require major repair(s), overhaul, or replacement.
Example: The 5.9L Cummins has a B50 life of 350,000 miles. Therefore, half of the engines in operation can be expected to require an overhaul at/near 350,000 miles.
An "overhaul" or "major repair" is considered a repair that requires removal of the cylinder heads or dropping of the oil pan. Failure/replacement of components that are accessible without removing the heads or dropping the oil pan do not attribute to B10/B50 life expectancy.
That still does not explain what they consider to be the normal "operation" of the powertrain they are predicting a lifespan for which is (I think) the debate at this point.
|
|
|
transamz9
Lawrenceburg Ky
Senior Member
Joined: 07/27/2010
View Profile
Offline
|
Thanks Russ. That explanation helped a lot.Thanks! I still don't understand what they base their numbers on as far as usage goes. Like OhhWell said, how do they know what normal usage is of a truck. There are so many different variations that these motors are used in.
HAHAHA!! I wonder what the B10 and B50 is for the Powerstroke 6.0??![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/scratchead.gif "scratchead") It probably changes daily.![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/rolleyes.gif "rolleyes")
|
bigg-limo
Chandler, AZ
Full Member
Joined: 06/18/2006
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
OhhWell wrote:trcgolf wrote:I get about 10-11 around town, 14-15 on pure highway but it's towing out west that concerns me.
How fast do you need to get up the hill and how many RPMs can you handle your engine sustaining while doing it?
That's why I hate towing with my wife's '11 2500 Suburban. Yes the GM 6.0L is a good engine, but I can't stand that 6 speed tranny that's in it. To me, it is too sensitive to torque loads or demands. It downshifts way too much. When we have to tow a 16' utility trailer with a UTV on it from Phoenix to Show Low, we spend at least 60% of the drive in 4th and 5th gear. I don't mind having to rev the engine to 6 grand hear and there to maintain 65 mph,…but when it's all the time, that's a lot of wear on the tranny. My Cummins pulling the same trailer will spend less than 5% of the trip out of O/D. And that's pulling the same trailer and running 70 mph.
I'm not gonna answer the question of which is better, but i'll share my own personal experiences.
|
bigg-limo
Chandler, AZ
Full Member
Joined: 06/18/2006
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
trcgolf wrote:We are new to RVing and we are planning a long Canada/Alaska trip from Western NY. I bought a new 2013 GMC 2500HD 6.0L gas, crew, 4x4... I use it for my everyday truck and our winters are such I need the 4x4.
Because of this trip, I am re-thinking that I may have bought the wrong engine. I knew the Diesel had higher torque and capacity and that they get better mileage but my calculation was to justify the price of the diesel...additional $9500...I would need to drive 30000 mile a year for five years. Diesel fuel is much higher in price in our area so driving it day to day just did not make sense.
The limited trips I took with the fifth wheel,( 32' @ 10,000), I got between 7-8 mile per gallon.
Doing the Alaskan and Canadian rockies, what should I expect for mileage out of a 6.0L gas? I believe the engine is fine for the weight of our unit but out west may be a different thing.
Should I consider getting a diesel now? Can anyone tell me how their gas engine did out there?
I think you should be fine with what you got. When you take that trip, just take your time and enjoy the drive. If you were talking about an 18k lb trailer, then I would suggest a diesel. For what you got, stick with it. Like others have said, when climbing hills, drive it at an RPM that you can feel comfortable with. Some of us don't mind 6 grand on the tach,…others may prefer more in the 4 to 4.5k range.
|
parkersdad
North Carolina
Senior Member
Joined: 07/11/2011
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
You have to pay to play. I just did what you did and bought a gas 2500 and liked it but ended up trading six months later for the diesel. Pulling is night and day. I will probably never own a gas truck again.
|
rowekmr
Chicago
Senior Member
Joined: 11/22/2007
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
From my quick google search I couldn't find a definition of "normal usage" with regards to B10 or B50. I can only guess that they take a statistical average of a given segment of the engines produced which they have data on overhaul rate (warranty info?). If that is the case that encompasses all type of usage from the grocery getters to use in MDT trucks that work full time near or at their GCVR limits.
transamz9 wrote:Thanks Russ. That explanation helped a lot.Thanks! I still don't understand what they base their numbers on as far as usage goes. Like OhhWell said, how do they know what normal usage is of a truck. There are so many different variations that these motors are used in.
HAHAHA!! I wonder what the B10 and B50 is for the Powerstroke 6.0?? It probably changes daily.
10 Lincoln MKS Ecoboost
07 Lincoln Navigator
00 Newmar Dutch Star 3851
|
|
|
|
