Goldstalker
Fairfield, CA
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parkersdad wrote:Jarlaxle wrote:That $8000+ you don't have to drop on a diesel will buy plenty of gas for a 6.0 GM. Also: diesel is running about an 85 cent/gallon premium over gas in this area!
I said that to when I had a gas motor but now that I have the diesel I disagree. If you buy a diesel at the end of the year like I did you can get a heck of a deal. It ate up almost all of the negative equity that I had. If I had no negative equity I would have only paid $2500 more dollars for the diesel than my gas truck.
The gas truck would have been discounted at the end of the year too like most all vehicles not just a diesel. You still payed just as much more for the diesel compared to gas.
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rhagfo
Portland, OR
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transamz9 wrote:parkersdad wrote:Jarlaxle wrote:That $8000+ you don't have to drop on a diesel will buy plenty of gas for a 6.0 GM. Also: diesel is running about an 85 cent/gallon premium over gas in this area!
I said that to when I had a gas motor but now that I have the diesel I disagree. If you buy a diesel at the end of the year like I did you can get a heck of a deal. It ate up almost all of the negative equity that I had. If I had no negative equity I would have only paid $2500 more dollars for the diesel than my gas truck.
And when you go to get rid of it you will get that back also.
X2
The average price of a 1st and 2nd Gen Ram has been going up the last couple years.
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Taco
VA
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rhagfo wrote:
X2
The average price of a 1st and 2nd Gen Ram has been going up the last couple years.
I think the diesel resale value has a lot to do with the greater fool theory (real theory, google it).
The gm 6.0 vortec that I own has a B10 of 200,000 miles the duramax option in the same truck has a b10 of 220,000 miles.
A pickup truck with 150,000+ miles diesel or gas is used slam up. There is no way in the world that a diesel with 150k on the clock is worth 8-10k or more than an equivalent gasser. It just doesn't have that much more design life left in the engine and the chassis is well used on both also.
Diesel resale just comes down to the one who buys it last is left holding the bag, or wins the title of "the greatest fool".
* This post was
edited 02/05/14 06:14pm by Taco *
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waynec1957
North Central Indiana
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parkersdad wrote:Jarlaxle wrote:That $8000+ you don't have to drop on a diesel will buy plenty of gas for a 6.0 GM. Also: diesel is running about an 85 cent/gallon premium over gas in this area!
I said that to when I had a gas motor but now that I have the diesel I disagree. If you buy a diesel at the end of the year like I did you can get a heck of a deal. It ate up almost all of the negative equity that I had. If I had no negative equity I would have only paid $2500 more dollars for the diesel than my gas truck.
I bought my 2013 last November and there were $7,500 in factory rebates (that didn't include my GM retiree discount). The Duramax/Allison option is something like $8,300.
You have to dig for the rebaTES because they're not all advertised. $1,500 of that was a rebate for buying diesel I found the night before we signed the papers the salesman didn't know anything about...and he's one of the good ones.
That being said, I was lucky to find almost the exact truck I was looking for that late in the model year.
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transamz9
Lawrenceburg Ky
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Taco wrote:rhagfo wrote:
X2
The average price of a 1st and 2nd Gen Ram has been going up the last couple years.
I think the diesel resale value has a lot to do with the greater fool theory (real theory, google it).
The gm 6.0 vortec that I own has a B10 of 200,000 miles the duramax option in the same truck has a b10 of 220,000 miles.
A pickup truck with 150,000+ miles diesel or gas is used slam up. There is no way in the world that a diesel with 150k on the clock is worth 8-10k or more than an equivalent gasser. It just doesn't have that much more design life left in the engine and the chassis is well used on both also.
Diesel resale just comes down to the one who buys it last is left holding the bag, or wins the title of "the greatest fool".
What formula parameters did you use to come with the b10 numbers? If you buy autos from a dealer you are a part of the grater fool theory. They buy them hoping to sell them to someone for more money.
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rhagfo
Portland, OR
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Taco wrote:rhagfo wrote:
X2
The average price of a 1st and 2nd Gen Ram has been going up the last couple years.
I think the diesel resale value has a lot to do with the greater fool theory (real theory, google it).
The gm 6.0 vortec that I own has a B10 of 200,000 miles the duramax option in the same truck has a b10 of 220,000 miles.
A pickup truck with 150,000+ miles diesel or gas is used slam up. There is no way in the world that a diesel with 150k on the clock is worth 8-10k or more than an equivalent gasser. It just doesn't have that much more design life left in the engine and the chassis is well used on both also.
Diesel resale just comes down to the one who buys it last is left holding the bag, or wins the title of "the greatest fool".
Well not likely the true B10 of the Dmax, but I believe the B10 of the 5.9 Cummins is 350,000. I am only at 269,000 miles so I should have about 80,000 miles left.
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Taco
VA
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transamz9 wrote:
What formula parameters did you use to come with the b10 numbers? If you buy autos from a dealer you are a part of the grater fool theory. They buy them hoping to sell them to someone for more money.
I don't use a formula. The engine manufacturers provide the numbers.
I never exactly said sell for more money but diesel owners expect to pay for an expensive option on a depreciating asset and expect to get full return on their option investment. Seems the either the original purchaser or the resale buyer is a bit foolish somewhere in this idea.
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transamz9
Lawrenceburg Ky
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Taco wrote:transamz9 wrote:
What formula parameters did you use to come with the b10 numbers? If you buy autos from a dealer you are a part of the grater fool theory. They buy them hoping to sell them to someone for more money.
I don't use a formula. The engine manufacturers provide the numbers.
I never exactly said sell for more money but diesel owners expect to pay for an expensive option on a depreciating asset and expect to get full return on their option investment. Seems the either the original purchaser or the resale buyer is a bit foolish somewhere in this idea.
Okay, so how do they come up with these numbers? Do they rated these miles at max load for X amount of miles? The max on the D-Max is more than the max for the 6.0. I don't really see where these b10 numbers are an apple to apple comparison.
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Taco
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A B10 number is the design life of the engine. It is a number that supposedly 10% of the engines will have an engine internal breakdown in this number of miles. The B50 or 50% is usually not a huge amount after this number.
The number is higher on the duramax because it has a 20k mile longer design life. The idea that a diesel engine lasts forever hold some truck for a class 8 tractor or a locomotive or a diesel ship but for a pickup it doesn't hold water. Even lots of medium duty truck are running around with 300-350k design life engines. I believe the powerstroke is very similar design life to the duramax. The cummins in the ram may be longer, I know it is longer for the version of the engine that goes in the medium duty trucks but the one in the pickup has a hotter tune and may very well be a shorter life.
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waynec1957
North Central Indiana
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I understand the B10 and B50 numbers, and I wouldn’t dispute that most (90%) gas engines make it to or past 200k miles before needing a major overhaul. Nor would I dispute there are a lot of gas engines out there with 300-350,000 miles on them—although I would say that’s relative to the number of them that came out of the factory.
What I WOULD dispute though is under the same conditions (driving style, maintenance, and especially towing heavy loads) that the average gas engine will last as long or longer than the average diesel.
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