tgatch
Meridian, ID
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Joined: 08/13/2003
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Quote:A prime example...40% of all passenger vehicles sold in Europe are diesel. If you look at all the brands available to European buyers there will always be a diesel engine available. That even includes Land Rovers, Merecedes Benz, etc. he Europeans also benefit from much, much cleaner diesel fuels.
I hate to say it, but the "Europeans love diesel" is a myth. They don't like diesel anymore than most Americans. Why do they buy them then? Big tax incentives is the reason. After the tax incentives are put in place Diesel works out to be about 40% less than gas. Places where there aren't tax incentives, such as England, gas vehicles far outnumber the diesel vehicles.
My source??? Car and Driver Magazine. The issue with the Yellow Corvette on the cover, I believe it is the current issue. Read the article where they compare two hybrids, one diesel and one gas. They talk about the very issue above.
Tom
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BertP
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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lkazanov - I wouldn't count the gassers out yet. There are a lot of resources being poured into the development of more efficient engines all the time, so I think there will be some developments. Also, notice that as the diesels become more environmentally friendly, they lose a little on fuel consumption. It isn't a free ride.
And, further to Tom's comment about taxes in Europe, their anti pollution laws are quite a bit different there than here. Many European militaries there are re-engineing much of their equipment and replacing the gassers with diesels. Why? Because the gassers cannot meet the European emissions laws but the diesels can. As with most things, there's more to it than meets the eye.
Jim - Why is there a difference between putting a turbo or supercharger on a gasser and putting one on a diesel? They are both internal combustion engines that work in almost exactly the same way. Yes, charging the intake track will add stresses to the engine. But, if the engine is designed to take the stress, it should be no worse for wear. As for your friends, notice that "they fall back because they don't like high RPM they have to run to keep up". It isn't the 8.1 that is causing them to drop back. If they were to keep their foot in it, their trucks would outpull your CTD as long as the altitude doesn't get too high (lack of turbo will hurt them high up).
The 8.1 produces more power than the CTD, so it will pull anything the CTD can and then some. Are the big gassers destined to be dinosaurs? I honestly don't know. The fact that they are still being built implies that there is a market for them. I did notice, though, that the 8.1 is no longer the standard engine in the GM medium duty trucks, so you may very well be right. Don't hold your breath, though ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
Bert
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Ivory Snatcher
Ostrander, Ohio
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We were driving on Sawmill Rd. in Columbus, OH. this morning and a fuel station had Diesel at $2.14.9/gal. and regular gas at $1.71/gal. It would certainly take a long time to recoup the front end costs of a diesel in a vehicle with figures like this.
Just thought I would throw this in for the experts in this thread.
What does it mean and why should I care? I don't know.
Ivory Snatcher
Ret. USAR
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Cornelius
Haarlem, the Netherlands
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Joined: 05/09/2004
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Deleted
* This post was
edited 10/29/04 06:44am by Cornelius *
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Lord-Dogbert
Fontana, Ca.
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Joined: 09/17/2004
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Who cares, GM just drove a fuel cell based car through Europe with no gas and no emmisions. http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/adv_tech/400_fcv/
I got the 8.1l because it was $3500 cheaper, lighter, quieter so that I can hear my all the cool sounds that my Allison tranny makes and 87 octane runs 2.09 and diesel runs 2.29 here in So Cal(10-4-04). Even with better gas mileage I would never recoup.
I for one am looking forward to Mr. Fusion hanging out of my hood; run outta gas, find some trash and your on your way again.
This debate is the same as democrat vs. republican, Chevy vs. Ford vs. Dodge. Opinions are like @$$ holes, everybody's got one. Get what works for you
Oh, and those continental European's, don't follow them. They're an odd bunch. Ever get behind an old diesel VW bus; I don't know what's worse the smoke cloud or the gagging reflex from the fumes.
* This post was
edited 10/04/04 04:16pm by Lord-Dogbert *
2007.5 Chevy 3500HD crew cab dually with LMM 6.6l Diesel and Allison Trans. Integrated brake controller, 60 gallon aux tank in the bed.
2007 38' Skyline TrailRider Toy Hauler with 2 A/C's, 5.5kw Onan generator, dual slides.
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justJeff
Ocean Shores, Washington
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Oh sure Bert, there are some practically antique 5yd dump trucks with gas engines in them running around, as well as a few 10yd trucks, but GET REAL! The vast majority of modern dump trucks are diesel powered.
I have an excavator that weighs about 35,000lbs, you find a gas truck that will pull it like our dump truck and bring it on over.
The reason I think so many gas owners wine about diesels is that they couldn't, or didn't feel likey ponying up the extra money. Just my opinion.
Your arguments about gas engines for heavy duty applications are rather ridiculous. Have you considered the relative extra safety margin afforded by diesel in many applications?
I have a construction yard full or diesel equipment, I can guarantee there isn't a modern counterpart for much of it that is powered by a gas engine.
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justJeff
Ocean Shores, Washington
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Bert, I just called a local landscaper that has a 5yd gas powered dump truck. I asked him if I put our 35,000lb excavator on our equipment trailer that weighs about 10,000lbs if he thought his truck would move it, of course being a sensible buy he just sort of laughed. Imagine if he would load up 5yds of rock in the truck and then try to haul it.
Bert, have you ever seen a gas powered truck of any vintage move something like a D8 around? I'm just curious.
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BertP
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Quote:Bert, I just called a local landscaper that has a 5yd gas powered dump truck. I asked him if I put our 35,000lb excavator on our equipment trailer that weighs about 10,000lbs if he thought his truck would move it, of course being a sensible buy he just sort of laughed. Imagine if he would load up 5yds of rock in the truck and then try to haul it.
What is his truck rated to haul? If it is rated for 45,000 lb or more, it should not be a problem. If it is rated less, then it will not be safe regardless of whether it has a diesel or gas engine.
You seem to be reading more into my posts than I intended. I have never said that you or anyone else should abandon their diesel trucks in favor of gassers for any reason. I simply questioned your claim that a gas engined truck cannot pull a good sized load. If you look back to WWII, you will find that the tanks used then weighed, in some cases, over 100,000 lb and they had gas engines. And, if they needed to be road transported, what kind of engine was in the truck that they rode on? Gas engines. Now, if gas engines were able to pull that kind of load during WWII when engine technology was in its infancy, why would a gas engine today be incapable of pulling a load that is less than 30% of what they routinely pulled then?
Quote:Bert, have you ever seen a gas powered truck of any vintage move something like a D8 around? I'm just curious.
See above. Remember that even into the 60's, the vast majority of heavy haulers were powered by gas engines because the technology required to build reliable diesels simply didn't exist. The US Army did not standardize on diesels until around 1963. Prior to that, it was gas all the way.
Bert
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justJeff
Ocean Shores, Washington
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Bert, I'm guessing that you must be about 105? Just kiddding. Certainly the old, hulking tanks of the far past were very heavy, and powered by gas engines. Of course, technology has improved quite a bit in both gas and diesel engines. Even with all the progess in gas engines though, the choice for most modern, heavy duty work are diesel engines. Diesels tend to make their power down low, 500hp doesn't do much good when it's at 5,000rpm. Hard to get a load moving with that, but you're right, it can be done. My point is mostly that with all of the wonderful technology, for a variety of reasons, when it is heavy hauling/work that needs to be done, the best available choices are usually diesel powered. It's not a cooincidence that most large sea going vessels are also diesel powered.
You're certainly right about gas powered rigs being used a great deal in the past. That's the past though. Maybe one day we'll have some kind of hydro powered motor that will make our diesels today look antiquated. Technology is moving forward.
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Ag Teacher
Oklahoma
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This is in reference to the quotes about the Cummins Dodge having a medium duty engine but the gas engines not being medium duty engines.
Look here: http://www.chevrolet.com/medium_duty/kodiak/model_c7500.htm
The 8.1 is offered in class 7 trucks so wouldn't that make it a medium duty engine also.
As far as the Italian with no Face (must have lost it shaving), engine power is measured in a term called Horsepower. The 8.1 G.M. engine has more horsepower than any diesel engine offered in a pickup.
2005 Explorer by Frontier RV T265
Yamaha EF3000iSEB Generator
2005 Chevrolet 2500HD Ext. Cab LS, 4x4, 6.0, 5 speed manual
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