smcrea
Maryland
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Joined: 07/08/2010
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hutchman wrote:smcrea wrote:I am strongly considering getting a Diesel 3500. One concern is that Diesels seem to be "dirty" clouds of black smoke etc.
Can anyone tell me what the NEW diesel engines are like if they have to meet lets say California emissions standards.
All the research that I've done points me to a diesel engine for my new truck. The only remaining concern is "how dirty" we have visions of black disgusting vehicles :-)
Thanks
New diesels do not smoke unless someone adds a tuner.....and even then, most tuners on lower power settings do not smoke much if at all. The newer diesels have particulate filters in the exhaust to prevent smoke.
I would not buy a used Dodge from 07 through 09. They did have some issues with the exhaust filters, that may have been fixed by software updates. I believe the 2010 and newer have most of those issues fixed. I bought a new 2012 and have no issues at this point.
I don't have much knowledge of Chevy and Ford diesels, but my guess is they similar issues during that time period.
Diesels are not for everyone. They can cost a suitcase full of money to repair when out of warranty. From my perspective, unless you just want one, or tow a lot, get a gasser. If you tow heavy or just want s diesel, buy a new one.......or get an older one from the late 90s or early 2000s. The exception to that in my opinion is the 5.9 Cummins. I believe they were good up through 2007 when they changed to the 6.7. If you buy an older one, make sure you have some money in savings for repairs...
I now see you want a one ton. The will most likely mean a diesel rather than a gas engine unless you buy an old one. Go drive all three and buy the one you like. They all have good and not so good features... My opinion is that you probably can't buy a bad new one from any of the manufacturers.
How's that for a ramble......?
Thanks,
Yes I've been asking questions on different aspects of truck buying and you folks on this forum have been great. I put the findings into a presentation which I showed my wife this evening. It looks like we are in agreement on a Chevy 3500 Crew Cab, SRW, 4WD, Long Box. But she had a concern about the Diesel engine. We both remember the days when diesels spewed out black clouds of fowl smoke and she was a little concerned about having a black stinky smelly truck. I totally understand her concern. So once again I'm back on this forum asking you folks for your expert opinion.
Thanks!
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Jarlaxle
New England
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Joined: 11/18/2006
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No, they are now clean...and also overcomplicated, cranky, thirsty, and have a very high potential for heart-stopping repair costs. Diesel has jumped the shark...go with gas power.
John and Elizabeth (Liz), with Briza the size XL tabby
St. Bernard Marm, cats Vierna and Maya...RIP. ">
Current rig:
1992 International Genesis school bus conversion
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Paul Clancy
BC Canada
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Joined: 09/16/2005
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For many of us modern diesel is the answer to relaxed rv travel without smoke and stink. I keep hearing about these huge repair and maintanence costs but through the years have yet to experience them. Stock trucks have high reliability. Sounds like you are doing your homework, this should lead to buying the truck with exactly what you need. Don't fall for the internet modders pitch that you must remove the emmissions equipment for reliability. This is a quick way to do exactly the opposite -as well as void your warranty, lower your resale value and fail emmisions testing. New diesel trucks are expensive but also better than they've ever been.
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Ram4Sam
Redlands, Calif
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Joined: 09/28/2001
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smcrea wrote:hutchman wrote:smcrea wrote:I am strongly considering getting a Diesel 3500. One concern is that Diesels seem to be "dirty" clouds of black smoke etc.
Can anyone tell me what the NEW diesel engines are like if they have to meet lets say California emissions standards.
All the research that I've done points me to a diesel engine for my new truck. The only remaining concern is "how dirty" we have visions of black disgusting vehicles :-)
Thanks
New diesels do not smoke unless someone adds a tuner.....and even then, most tuners on lower power settings do not smoke much if at all. The newer diesels have particulate filters in the exhaust to prevent smoke.
I would not buy a used Dodge from 07 through 09. They did have some issues with the exhaust filters, that may have been fixed by software updates. I believe the 2010 and newer have most of those issues fixed. I bought a new 2012 and have no issues at this point.
I don't have much knowledge of Chevy and Ford diesels, but my guess is they similar issues during that time period.
Diesels are not for everyone. They can cost a suitcase full of money to repair when out of warranty. From my perspective, unless you just want one, or tow a lot, get a gasser. If you tow heavy or just want s diesel, buy a new one.......or get an older one from the late 90s or early 2000s. The exception to that in my opinion is the 5.9 Cummins. I believe they were good up through 2007 when they changed to the 6.7. If you buy an older one, make sure you have some money in savings for repairs...
I now see you want a one ton. The will most likely mean a diesel rather than a gas engine unless you buy an old one. Go drive all three and buy the one you like. They all have good and not so good features... My opinion is that you probably can't buy a bad new one from any of the manufacturers.
How's that for a ramble......?
Thanks,
Yes I've been asking questions on different aspects of truck buying and you folks on this forum have been great. I put the findings into a presentation which I showed my wife this evening. It looks like we are in agreement on a Chevy 3500 Crew Cab, SRW, 4WD, Long Box. But she had a concern about the Diesel engine. We both remember the days when diesels spewed out black clouds of fowl smoke and she was a little concerned about having a black stinky smelly truck. I totally understand her concern. So once again I'm back on this forum asking you folks for your expert opinion.
Thanks!
The tailpipe on my Honda Element has more soot in it than my friends new Duramax......
Sam
2016 Dodge cummins 3500 SRW LB CC 4X4 Aisin, Nav, white w/brown
No keys, B&W TOB & Companion
Gone....served me well...1991 Dodge Cummins...2001.5 Dodge Cummins
2008 Thor Jazz 2870UK 5er
Driving a Dodge Cummins since 1991...
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Hannibal
Tampa Bay Area
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Joined: 04/12/2002
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O2 sensor getting iffy on that Element Sam? My F250 started getting black in the tailpipe before the CEL came on with O2 sensor faults. I replaced them and the tailpipe is clean again.
2020 F250 STX CC SB 7.3L 10spd 3.55 4x4
2010 F250 XLT CC SB 5.4L 5spdTS 3.73
ex '95 Cummins,'98 12v Cummins,'01.5 Cummins,'03 Cummins; '05 Hemi
2017 Jayco 28RLS TT 32.5'
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Ram4Sam
Redlands, Calif
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Hannibal wrote:O2 sensor getting iffy on that Element Sam? My F250 started getting black in the tailpipe before the CEL came on with O2 sensor faults. I replaced them and the tailpipe is clean again.
No, the Element is fine.....just making a joke about new diesels tailpipes are squeaky clean and people still have the "dirty, stinky, smelley, smokey" mindset about diesel power.....I told my buddy to paint the inside of the tailpipe black so it would look like a real truck![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/cool.gif "cool")
Sam
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wintersun
Monterey
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Joined: 12/22/2011
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Diesel engines produce a great deal more torque and that is great for pulling a heavy load up a steep grade. The diesel engines have what is called an exhaust brake and it is great for slowing the truck and trailer when going down a steep grade. With the exhaust filters, special extra fuel injector and urea solution that is injected to clean up the exhaust the diesel tailpipe emissions of soot are reduced by 99%.
The new engines are harder on the engine oils and they have been reformulated to deal with the extra soot and sludge but long periods between oil changes are not a good idea even with synthetics. Changing oil every 7500 miles though is not an expensive proposition.
With gas you save $5,000 in purchase cost and have 25% less driving range on a tankful of fuel. Diesel is selling for more than premium gas much of the time so there is no longer the cost advantage of the past. The new diesel engines require ultra low sulfur diesel and this is not available in Mexico so older pre 2007 diesels or gas engines are better for travel south of the border.
In terms of load and towing capacity the gas powered trucks with the 4.10 rear end are rated close to or equal to the diesel powered trucks with the 3.73 rear end. Manufacturers sell high MPG trucks by using higher gearing but it reduces the loads the trucks can handle when they do.
Not sure about the Cummins but the 2011 and later GM diesel engines and the 2010 and newer Ford diesels are much better built than their predecessors and present fewer maintenance and repair problems for the engines and related systems. Older diesel engines as a whole were a lot less reliable and more expensive to keep running than gas engines for the majority of their owners. I ended up buying a new Chevy diesel truck as the prices for the older ones were ridiculously high. I bought a new truck for $5-6k more than a used truck with comparable equipment and 50,000 or more miles on the odometer and little or no remaining warranty protection. The used Ford diesel trucks are selling for a lot less than the GM & Chevy ones.
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bsqrd
Tucson, AZ
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Joined: 09/15/2012
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Hannibal wrote:O2 sensor getting iffy on that Element Sam? My F250 started getting black in the tailpipe before the CEL came on with O2 sensor faults. I replaced them and the tailpipe is clean again.
Hannibal - I did not have a comment on your post but I'm looking for some advice. I noticed your fifth wheel. It is the same dry weight as the one we just purchased. We are now looking for a truck. I've read back 15 pages of posts so I see in general what the community is saying.
Situation: We were looking for a F250 XLT gas 6.2L V8 and had almost decided to order one when we saw a F250 XLT 6.8L V8 on the lot with most of what we wanted on it and due to dealer incentives and workplace discount the price will only be $2.5K more than ordering the gas. I always thought that the "$10K" difference made our decision for us but now I'm on the fence.
Any thoughts?
Any body else please chime in.
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Hannibal
Tampa Bay Area
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bsqrd - For our relatively lightweight 5th wheel, I can only tell you that "I" would be happy towing it around Arizona with a 6.2L auto/3.73 F250. Most here as I'm sure you've gathered, would not be at all happy with it even towing around Florida. I'm thinking you meant a 6.4 or 6.7L diesel F250 is on the lot for a discounted price? The towing experience would no doubt be more relaxing with the 6.4L or 6.7L diesel. The sound of an engine running sometimes over 2k rpm above non towing rpm brings out the cringe in most people not used to hearing it or expecting to hear it. Doesn't hurt the engine at all but, it can ruin your trip if you cringe yourself into a painful migraine. For me it's music to my ears. If higher rpm makes you tense or if you're planning on high elevations in your travels, the diesel might be the way to go. I'll leave the topic of potential higher repair costs for the owners of newer diesels to respond to.
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bsqrd
Tucson, AZ
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Hannibal wrote:bsqrd - For our relatively lightweight 5th wheel, I can only tell you that "I" would be happy towing it around Arizona with a 6.2L auto/3.73 F250. Most here as I'm sure you've gathered, would not be at all happy with it even towing around Florida. I'm thinking you meant a 6.4 or 6.7L diesel F250 is on the lot for a discounted price? The towing experience would no doubt be more relaxing with the 6.4L or 6.7L diesel. The sound of an engine running sometimes over 2k rpm above non towing rpm brings out the cringe in most people not used to hearing it or expecting to hear it. Doesn't hurt the engine at all but, it can ruin your trip if you cringe yourself into a painful migraine. For me it's music to my ears. If higher rpm makes you tense or if you're planning on high elevations in your travels, the diesel might be the way to go. I'll leave the topic of potential higher repair costs for the owners of newer diesels to respond to.
Thanks - yes 6.7L diesel V8 - is it music to your ears because with all the diesels you've owned - diesel gas is now more expensive and the modern diesel engines are more expensive to maintain and repair and you are thinking about what you will not be spending or another reason?
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