lotto7335
Ohio
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Joined: 08/02/2004
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I am really ticked off.
Went out and bought a gm dmax and now fuel prices for diesel are 15 to 20 cents more than gas.
I guess you all can blame me.
Like the power tho.
Happy Camping
lotto
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Aquaduct
Winchester, VA USA
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Joined: 05/30/2004
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Quote:i only have a gcw of 25,000# and only 250hp.
Not terribly surprising, since it only takes about 200 hp to move an 80,000 lb tractor trailer rig down the road at 55 mph (And yes, I know how to do the calculations and I spend 40 hours or more a week surrounded by 32 engine dynos). If engine horsepower or torque were the only factor that mattered, the 5.4L in my Expedition could get that done. But it's not.
In fact, I think Ford gives higher tow ratings (by 500 lbs) in the Super Duty pickups (F250/350) to thier V10 over the PSD despite lower peak torque AND peak horsepower.
That's all folks like Bert are trying to explain. It's a system and there are other factors that enter the "towing" equation beside torque or horsepower.
And it makes no sense to ask whether your Kenworth would pull better if you replaced the Catterpillar diesel with a F350 V10. Obviously, no. But then again, the F350 wouldn't tow any better if you tried to wedge the Cat diesel into it. In fact, if all you were doing was replacing engines, niether one of them would probably run at all.
When considering the difference between a gas or a diesel engine, there are a bunch of things to consider like how often you'll tow and what you'll be using the vehicle for outside of towing. A knee-jerk "diesel is better for towing" is simply not that helpful.
I work as a diesel engineer. I tow with a 5.4L Eddie Bauer Expedition. It tows fine with the Outback 25RSS that we have and the Sunline 299 that we're moving up to (yes, they let us have a test tow). Gas mileage isn't as much as a diesel would be, but gas mileage is way down the list of priorities (I only get 3 weeks of vacation a year, so I can't tow that much and my 100 mile daily commute is with my old paid-for Aerostar). My wife likes it for schleping bushels of kids (our 2 and assorted co-conspirators) around town. There are 3 gas stations within 4 blocks of my house, I haven't found a diesel station in my little city yet. It's quiet, smooth, non-smelly, luxurious, and mama loves it. And we all know that if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
So, am I an idiot for having a gasser as some of the folks on here would imply? Whatever.
Towing to Pennsylvania next weekend. See y'all there whatever you're driving.
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Rogerg
WESTERN N.Y. U.S.A.
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Joined: 01/23/2004
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Aquaduct,
i am not saying anyone is a idiot. all that matters is that your rig is safe and that you get out and use it. my post on 7/02/04 in diesel vs. gas lists my reasons for going diesel. you are right in saying it is more than hp and torque. you have to match the truck to the trailer. gearing, brakes, towing and weight capacity, etc. i towed alot with gas motors and it wasn't untill the last six years that i went to diesel. to me it was worth it. the wife is happy because she gets the trailer she wanted and i'm happy because i get the truck i wanted. (your also right about the wife being happy.)
have a good weekend in Pa.
Rogerg
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wkdelsol
sun city,ca. usa
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Joined: 06/29/2004
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Am I the only one on this forum that has noticed everone is comparing turbo charged diesel engines to non turbo charged gas engines.?
How well would my old f-250 with a 460 c.i.do against a psd If I got it turbo charged.? BERT ?
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BertP
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Joined: 11/07/2003
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Quote:Am I the only one on this forum that has noticed everone is comparing turbo charged diesel engines to non turbo charged gas engines.?
How well would my old f-250 with a 460 c.i.do against a psd If I got it turbo charged.? BERT ?
Turbos have been mentioned a couple of times. What kappens to the output of your engine depends on a number of things such as how much boost you push into the engine (and how much boost it will withstand) but you can get a large increase in power by turbo charging. You can certainly create a towing mnonster if you want, but I don't think you will ever come close to the fuel consumption numbers of a diesel, if that is your goal. Also, increasing the power output of any engine will decrease the life expectancy of that engine if you do not do anything else to it.
Bear in mind, though, that putting a turbo on an engine in no way alters the rest of the truck. You will still have the same limitations caused by the truck after you put the turbo on as you did before the turbo was added. You will be able to get a load up to speed much faster, but it won't get down to zero any quicker.
Bert
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Aquaduct
Winchester, VA USA
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Also remember that gasoline engines are knock-limited, so you can't get anywhere near the boost advantage that you can with a diesel. Something like 10-12psi for gas vs. 30-50psi for diesel. That's why more gas engines aren't turbocharged. Not as much bang for the buck.
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BertP
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Joined: 11/07/2003
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Quote:Also remember that gasoline engines are knock-limited, so you can't get anywhere near the boost advantage that you can with a diesel. Something like 10-12psi for gas vs. 30-50psi for diesel. That's why more gas engines aren't turbocharged. Not as much bang for the buck.
Good point, Pete.
Do you know how much of an effeciency increase a properly installed turbo will get for a gasser? I was reading a "wheels" article a while ago that claimed that almost any gasser can gain around a 20% jump in efficiency when a turbo is installed, but that sounds high to me.
Bert
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MotorPsycho
Madison, Wisconsin
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Joined: 09/08/2003
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Seems fairly cut and dried to me. Diesels are awesome engines that cost a lot of smackers. They have a lot more power, get better gas mileage but aren't so great in the cold North winters.
Depending on the math you do, it takes somewhere close to or above 50,000 miles of towing to pay back the added sticker price of a diesel.
So if you tow half the time, spend a lot of time in the mountains, absoultely can't stand slowing down an extra 5 or 10 mph on the longer non mountain grades, or decide to tow a complete house that the largest gas motor can't handle, the a diesel's for you.
If your a weekend/vacation warrior, use your truck to commute to work, tow a smaller 5th, don't mind slowing down a bit on one or two hills a trip gas is a viable answer.
This is a personal desicision based on individual facts with no right answer for everyone.
MotorPsycho
Durango 275RK
2004 F150 5.4L FX4
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samsontdog
Oregon, Wash Coast summer, Yuma Az winter
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We just got back from a 4,433 mile trip with a V-10 {99} towing
a 32 ft TT and averaged 8.3 for the trip. When I find out more about the 2005 Ford one ton diesel thats what I will be buying. Never had any problems with the gasser but I want more power plus I will be going with a 36 or 38ft TT or 5th wheel.
samsontdog">">
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wkdelsol
sun city,ca. usa
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Joined: 06/29/2004
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Thanks for the reply Bert,guess i'll forget the turbo.
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