sack1
Kent, WA
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Joined: 08/16/2002
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Torque is fine and we all need a measure of it to go where we are going with what we tow. Horsepower too is valuable also and is in fact the result of torque and rpm. I think it's too easy to simply state that for towing one needs low end torque and that's what a diesel produces or that diesels are all about torque and gas engines are all about HP. Most gas engines of moderate tune have wider powerbands and rev higher than diesels. Because they can maintain their torque further up the rpm band they tend to excell at producing HP in comparison. But that doesn't mean gas engines produce no low-end torque. But a good tranny will allow an engine to stay in a comfortable rpm range while multiplying torque.
I think it's too easy to look at torque and HP data given by the manufacturers and do too much bench racing (comparing on data only). There are many variables.
Or is this thread on this forum simply to crown king of the hill based on such data?
'03 Chevy 2500HD 4x4, LT, Ext. cab, LB
8.1/Allison, 4.10
'03 32' 2955 Montana 5er
XM Radio/OnStar
Valley Hitch
Honda EU1000i
1984 VF700F Interceptor
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Night Owl 4489
Neptune
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Joined: 08/22/2004
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Diesel also gets more torque at lower rpm, diesels will last 3 times longer than any gas because of the higher compression ratios and that they stay cooler.
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autoxracer
Cincinnati,Oh-USA
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Joined: 08/19/2004
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Everything is affected by thinner air-even diesels,turbo's or superchargers help make up a lot of the loss,but not all.Chips,exhaust,etc.,etc.,gas or diesel help,but so many people forget that they still have to stop and turn that rig and that maybe they shouldn't go as fast as all that.
dbLD250
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adiabatic lapsing
Minneapolis, MN
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Joined: 07/26/2004
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Here's a perfect scenario: Have a '98 2500 4X4 Ram V10 shortbox with a 3.54 gear and 59K on the clock. Most recent trip to TX with a GCW of 17,800 lbs, I almost kissed 8MPG in the flatlands of KS and NE. Been thinking of trading. Today, we took test drive in an '04 3500 SRW 4X4 Ram Long bed w/ the HO Cummins and 6-speed manual to see if my 5' tall, 99 lb wife could manage it......she could,... the truck drove and shifted really smooth. Will we buy this TV?.....Dunno, wife has issue with being right up against the steering wheel and no place to put her left foot when it's off the clutch. This truck lists for $41K. She said, you know, we've seen quite a few new 4X4 F350 SRW Automatic PSD Fords that all have running boards (the Ram we drove didn't), and list out @ $42K, and have some nicer touches, and 5th wheel hitch installations are not as complex.....HMMMM> Anyway, on the way home (Mpls, MN area), we saw most gas stations selling unleaded regular for $1.71/gal and diesel for $1.86/gal.....sure.....we go diesel shoppin', and gas plummets, while diesel skyrockets. Maybe that '98 is startin to look better and better!!!
--Dave
Dave
05 3500 SRW Ram LB QC CTD
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luvmyX
columbus ,ohio,usa
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Joined: 08/23/2004
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well, first my bro an i love ford trucks, we do construccion an pull trailers now and then(every week or so depending on how long the job takes)he owns a beatiful 2000 one of a kind blazing yellow lariat le crew cab 4x4 dually with the triton v10,now he spent 40 dollars on a 2 hour trip coz he forgot some tools , (unloaded) an i spent the week before on the same trip loaded with a utility trailer fully loaded with equipment (scaffolds,planks,ladder,screw jack ,mixer etc, etc) 21 bucks on my 2000 ford excursion diesel while watchin kill bill vol.2 (not that i shuold have)
2000 ford excursion limited edition 7.3 power stroke diesel 4x4
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sack1
Kent, WA
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Night Owl 4489,
_____________________________________________________________________
"Diesel also gets more torque at lower rpm, diesels will last 3 times longer than any gas because of the higher compression ratios and that they stay cooler."
_____________________________________________________________________
Say what? Any gas?
Diesels can have a longer life but the GM 8.1 and the DMax, for example, have the same rating before rebuild, 200K. Even if you had an engine that could be expected to last say 300k will you be the one owning it? How many vehicles have you owned and put that kind of mileage on? What will the rest of the truck be like? With your typical yearly mieage how many years will that be down the road? How long can you resist buying that new rig..long before you get to that kind of mileage?
Lastly, higher compression ratios and engine longevity???? Do you mean because of their construction they can last longer?
If that's all it takes for you then belly up to the bar and buy a diesel. It's your choice.
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INSAYN
NW Oregon
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Joined: 12/29/2003
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I like the smell of diesel, over gas (except race gas!)
Diesel engines can run on Dino diesel, BioDiesel, fresh or recycled veggie oil, with no changes to the engine itself.
INSAYN
1997 F350 CrewCab PSD 4x4, auto.
2005 SnowRiver 8'10", Loaded + EU2000i.
2005 8.5'x16' Interstate West Cargo trailer, Line-X'ed
2005 16' Fish-Rite Rogue welded aluminum boat, 2005 40HP Yamaha 2-stroke O/B.
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Ag Teacher
Oklahoma
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Joined: 04/30/2001
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Quote:I like the smell of diesel, over gas (except race gas!)
Diesel engines can run on Dino diesel, BioDiesel, fresh or recycled veggie oil, with no changes to the engine itself.
INSAYN
With the exception of Dino diesel, I think premium unleaded is less expensive than any of the other three options you give. I don't really think the ability to run on crisco is a factor in whether or not to buy a diesel truck.
Here is a link to a guy that actually understands the diesel debate.
Quote:I am mildly ticked off at the behavior of our SuperDuty brothers of the compression ignition persuasion.
I have been a member of this site for several years and read much more than I post.
I defy any one to cruise current or past posts in any of the "dieselstop" forums, and find any instance of a "gasser" member hijacking a PSD thread or Trolling a PSD forum and baiting our cackle prone brothers.
OK, OK! There are indeed one or two from a couple of years ago. But those children have moved on to other web sites. And we all don't miss them.
I guess what torques me off is the childish******we have to endure, in the "gasser" forum, from fellow SuperDuty owners. Then, when we REACT, the offending troll usually ends up spouting some******about it being "a diesel site don't cha know". What hooey!
This is America and I have never, nor will I ever, tell a PSD owner that he is stupid for spending his money his way on what ever the hell he wants to. All I would ever expect is the same respect and consideration. I tire of these constant arguments on what engine is better.
The simple truth is that all three power packages have their pluses and minuses. As long as you are happy with what you bought, who really gives a good tinkers damn what somebody else's opinion is. I really suspect that many PSD owners are constantly in need of some form of affirmation that the extra $5000 was well spent. OK here it is, ya done good, ya gotts the biggest, baddest, mostus powerful motor there is. I really hope cruising 10 miles a day to work and back in it gives you great joy and pleasure. When you haul that 9000lb toy hauler to the woods or the 5000lb boat to the lake, you should rejoice in the knowledge that you could easily haul two or three more times the weight.
This brings up the poor unfortunate noobie that really just wants to get opinions from several different owners on the relative merits of one engine over the other, so he or she can make an informed purchase decision.
Give all of us a break and stay with what you know and try to leave your small minded, thin-skinned******to your self.
Current facts:
The new standard V8 3valve 300HP motor is better then the older V10 275hp versions and should greatly confuse the choices for the new owners. These should average 12-14 MPG and haul light to medium loads all day long.
The new V10 3 valve 355hp is going to be on stout torque monster and is a good $600 compromise for infrequent heavy hauling. These should average 12-14 MPG and haul medium to heavy loads all day long.
The $5000 6.0L PSD with 500+ foot pounds Torque is a great motor for constant heavy hauling and is defiantly the most upgradeable motor made by Ford. These should average 16-19 MPG and haul heavy to heavier loads all day long.
If I did not need to justify transportation expenses vs. needs, and I had plenty of moolah, PSD is the motor I would have.
On the other hand, when I compromised on the 2001 F250 and got the V10, I was very surprised and happy with the performance AND ECONOMY. In fact now that I have the bucks, I have ordered a 2005 King Ranch V10 just because it totally satisfies my needs and does it quietly. I think I will enjoy the comfortable quiet saddle leather interior with good music turned to a reasonable level.
All SuperDuty Ford trucks, especially the 4x4 versions are the most bang for the buck, greatest looking, and very cool rides.
End of rant... thinking of my new V10 powered F350 has calmed me and I am back in a zen moment. If I have offended I am truly sorry and hope we can all just get along.... OK now
Kum bye yah! Kum bye yah! EVERY BODY now! Kum bye yah! Kum bye yah!
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01 F-250 4X4 V10 3.73:1LS Superduty Crew Platinum Latiat w/all the good stuff. Bumper drag a 6500lb TT usually with a 700lb 93FXR (harley) in the bed. Gun toting Retired Army 1SG w/conservative attitude.
From http://forums.thedieselstop.com posted by fredvon4 on the gas engines board.
2005 Explorer by Frontier RV T265
Yamaha EF3000iSEB Generator
2005 Chevrolet 2500HD Ext. Cab LS, 4x4, 6.0, 5 speed manual
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INSAYN
NW Oregon
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Joined: 12/29/2003
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Quote:
With the exception of Dino diesel, I think premium unleaded is less expensive than any of the other three options you give. I don't really think the ability to run on crisco is a factor in whether or not to buy a diesel truck.
Here is a link to a guy that actually understands the diesel debate.
I am not a current user of alternative fuels for the diesel engine, but knowing that there is altertative fuels out there that won't harm the environment is a valid reason for my purchase of a used truck. I have seriously considered the veggie oil conversion to be an option in the future.
Diesel owners may be like any other motorhead out there. They feel obligated to modify their truck to get attention over everyone else. It is either appearance, sound system, handling, or power. With the deisel, one can achieve greater advances in power with far less money or effort than the equivalent gasser and that can be proven over and over.
As for the post you quoted, I feel he has been in too many verbal battles and is mearly spouting out (right or wrong). Nothing mentioned was different from other gasser owner rants.
Again, I chose diesel for the smell.
INSAYN
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MGB939
Pawnee City, Nebraska
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Joined: 08/10/2004
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I own a 2001 GMC 2500HD,8.1 eng.,allison,and 4.10 gears. I pull a 12000 Lb. 5er and been in mtns.,hills,level land and etc. I avg. 9 mi per gallon towing and 15 mi per solo. Of course I dont drive hard and easy on the throttle. My gcwr is about 18700. I previously had a GM 350 diesel and after running that for yrs. made up my mind never to own another diesel because of noise and smell. I know they have improved diesel engs. quite a bit,power,torque and the like,and I guess it comes down to whatever ones want. the literature that came with the truck says I have 340hp. and 455ft.lbs. which I think is right. Most important thing is the trans. without the Allison the truck wouldn't be what it is.
2001 GMC 2500HD Ext. Cab 8.1/Allison,4:10's
16k Drawtite Slider
Prodigy controlled
2002 293RKS Jayco Eagle
2- EU2000i Honda Gens.
2004 FLTHCU/I Harley-Davidson Ultra Classic
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