sack1
Kent, WA
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Just as reliable and as efficient as stock Home Depot? Don't be too sure on that. I can't say I've ver been around engines that carry their original reliability and longevity when extra power is produced. How could you tell anyway? Blind faith? If you sell the truck 5 years down the road how will you know how long it lasts?
Have a chat with Whipple of supercharging fame. According to them (take it for what it's worth) reliability is not an issue provided one isn't on the boost all the time. They even went so far as to tell me that I could expect up to a 2 mpg increase when towing! I'd have to see that to believe it. Lastly, the addition of their kit is less expensive than the diesel option on a new truck. Power ratings are given as over 500 HP and close to 700 ft/lbs. of torque. I'd sure love to give one the whip sometime. But I don't need that much power nor do I need to spend the extra for it. I have plenty of power as it is.
As far as pull-offs, I don't see the need. Where does that equate to towing? I don't use maximum power, I know you most likely don't.
Then you can visit the world of top fuel drag racing. Are diesels used there? Could they be competitive? Who cares?
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sack1
Kent, WA
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PSDExcursion,
Are you still at it with Bert? First off, the 6.0 carries a lower tow rating so I didn't consider it for our rig. Secondly, with less torque across the board, everything else being equal, the 6.0 would have a harder time of it simply getting the mass moving from rest and any other load put against it. Cruising down the pike I'm sure my foot would be in it a bit more just to produce the needed torque to stay at a given speed.
But the 6.0 is a revver and would most likely need to spin at higher rpm with the multiplication the lower gears would give to stay at speed with some loads.
Then too for our needs the 6.0 isn't available with the Allison and that was a big part of the picture for us as well. With more gears it is posible to find a happy medium between rpm and road speed for a level of torque needed.
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PSDExcursion
Millstone NJ
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Quote:Are you still at it with Bert?
He still thinks it's all about horsepower. The Dodge Sprinter Van has 154HP and the Kawasaki ZX-10R has 184HP I wonder which one can tow the biggest load ?![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
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tgatch
Meridian, ID
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Well Joe,
If you give the Kawasaki the proper gearing and the right rear end gear the motorcycle will. Geez, haven't you learned anything?????
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
Read my post from this thread: Out of power on hill?
Yes the V-10 is capable of prducing more power, but if you read the links in my post you will quickly learn that a 235HP 7.3 PSD is actually capable of pulling a 7% grade faster than a 275 HP V-10. And I'm willing to bet that it does an even better job than the 235HP 5.4 of the same year. All three having the same transmission, and the best possible rear end for that application.
Tom
* This post was
edited 07/11/04 07:52pm by tgatch *
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#20 Home Depot
Mississippi/China
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Quote:Just as reliable and as efficient as stock Home Depot? Don't be too sure on that. I can't say I've ver been around engines that carry their original reliability and longevity when extra power is produced. How could you tell anyway? Blind faith? If you sell the truck 5 years down the road how will you know how long it lasts?
I agree with the supercharger statement.
I have seen reprogrammed diesels last a long time.
Diesels can have HP and torque increased cheaper and easier than gasers.
A gaser doesn't know how long his truck lasts after selling unless he knows the guy he sells it to.
Yes I have been to many top fuel dragster races. Enough to know they do not run on gasoline. They run on nitro!
Gas engines not allowed in diesel truck racing...you been to one of those? Racing sanctioning bodies all have certain rules stating what fuel type can be run.
What does racing have to do with pulling???
The pulling event by the diesel page would be an even slate for a unbiased comparison as they all pull the same 10K trailer up the same grade.
Most of the guys posting in this thread have 5ers. The gas diesel thing is the same as the TT and 5er debate. While a TT will serve the same purpose as a 5er, the overhelming opinion by those that have owned both is that the 5er has more advantages than a TT. So my question is if you buy a 5er when you could have done the same thing with a TT why would you pull that 5er with a gaser???
#20 Home Depot
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forddude
Kennewick Wa
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I still think it all comes back to $ and status. If you have the latest and greatest diesel, you would never want to see any gasser pass you going up any grade and if you have the latest and greatest gasser, you never want to smell the exhaust from any diesel, unless it is just before you pass it, going uphill. I have an old gasser and I get passed on uphill grades all of the time by newer turbo'd diesels and they are getting better mileage than I am, but if I had gears in my gasser, I could keep up with them and get even less mileage. I don't have payments so I can buy a lot of gas.
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#20 Home Depot
Mississippi/China
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Don't anybody get me wrong. I do not have anything against someone that pulls with a gaser. Thats your choice and more power to you(cuz you need it!). I'm just trying to say that,initial costs aside, that while there are some new big gas engines that do a great job towing, the engine of choice for pulling large heavy loads is a diesel. Same reason you don't see large OTR trucks with gas engines or tractors pulling huge implements with gas engines.
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MacEwing
Dallas, TX
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I have an 8.1. It pulls great the best of the 3 Subs I have had. The other two were 454's. All that said, nothing will pull, last or work as hard as a Diesel. Plus, the milage differance. I get 7 pulling about 8000# in in the flatlands of Texas. Now that is better than the 454's bou now contest with a oil burner.
Mac Ewing
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Ag Teacher
Oklahoma
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Quote:Don't anybody get me wrong. I do not have anything against someone that pulls with a gaser. Thats your choice and more power to you(cuz you need it!).
Uh...No gasers don't need more power. Gasers already have more power.
Gasers need more TORQUE.
Read the other 13 pages everybody.
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zedman
Austin, Texas
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Quote:Roadfrog - I can only imagine that you are trollling here. (sic)
BertP,
This was un-called for and completely off base. I have learned more from people like PSDExcursion, TinTipi and Roadfrog (to mention a few) than from you. I spent a day reading through the results of a google search on this phrase "diesel vs gas" and have come to a better basic understanding of the issues that you seem to have, from reading your posts. Seems to me like you are the better troll candidate, except I believe that in you mind you are presenting what you honestly believe to be the case.
Your comparison to turbine engines in tanks is just silly and useless when we are talking about diesel engines in PUs or SUVs used for towing trailers. Engines are designed for different purposes you can't go willy-nilly comparing different engines designed for different applications.
The major item which put you on my ignore list for this topic is a post I read where you claim torque is "nothing" and HP is everything. You have that completely backwards, anyone informed knows that engines supply torque; HP is just a figure indicating how that torque is being applied (to a load) over time. Without torque there is no HP.
Anyway, HP is just a power measurement in terms of the power of a horse. If we just want the power of an engine (not in terms of HP) It is simply: power = torque * RPM. Again, for engines, HP is nothing in and of itself, we don't need it to characterize power. But if we want to see how much power the engine is generating compared to the power supplied by the average horse (550 ft-lbs/sec) you must multiply the above by the conversion factor of 1/5252.
Plain and simple, for engines:
- Torque is the force supplied by an engine (This is what allows loads to be moved)
- HP is a measue (relative to the power supplied by a horse!) of how that torque is applied over time.
What the specs say is this: Gas engines supply their available torque faster than a diesel (they are designed that way) but a diesel can supply more torque.
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