PastorCharlie
NC
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Joined: 03/28/2004
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I use the Brake Buddy on my Ford Ranger 4X4 which weighs 4550 lbs. The BB operates without the advantage of the power brakes of the Ranger. The sensitivity setting of the BB regulates the amount of deceleration needed to activate the system. The pressure setting regulates the amount of pressure that is applied to the brake pedal. If one has ever had the experience of braking without the power brake working they will quickly notice it takes much greater pressure on the brake pedal to effect a stop.
I have increased both settings and noted the difference in stopping. With a sensitivity setting of 4 and a pressure of 55 I have the Ranger stopping itself and aiding the coach, as I feel it pulling back.
It only stands to reason that given the same situation the Ranger would stop in less distance that a 35' coach, therefore when the settings are proper the toad can take care of itself without adding to the problem of stopping the coach.
Should it be the other way around where the coach was being towed by The Ranger it would be expected to require a longer stopping distance. Even though the coach stopped itself it would still push forward on the Ranger as it requires greater stopping distance than does the Ranger.
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vroes
New Orleans, LA
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Joined: 03/31/2004
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I installed the SuperStop Fitzall from Henderson's Lineup over the weekend. Not especially difficult, but a time consuming job. I haven't tested it out yet but will do so soon. We did test it in stationary position (wife tredding on MH brake with me watching in the toad). The toad brake pedal travel was clearly proportional to the force applied to the MH brake pedal... I predict that in a panic stop situation the toad brakes will lock up.
I chose this product because it applies the toad brakes only when the MH brakes are applied... I did not want the toad dragging when going downhill with the MH exhaust brake engaged.
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BaldEagle
Oregon
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Joined: 05/28/2003
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Pulsar, what a great service you have provided for those looking for brake systems. Wish this was available last year when I was researching a brake system to use in my toad.
One comment on US Gear installations, your quote: "A pulley is attached to the inside firewall. A solenoid is mounted inside the toad."
Per the US Gear installation instructions, http://www.usgear.com/utb_install.htm that pulley is mounted inside the toad under the brake pedal. If you look at the instructions it states that it is important that the pulley is installed at a 90 degree angle to get the max. pull. Then later in the instructions it states that if the pulley hits the brake pedal when it is depressed move it to the left or right so that it does not obstruct the pedal?
One of the reasons I decided against the US Gear was that I was very uncomfortable with a pulley installed under the brake pedal.
2004 Vectra 40AD
2002 MDX Toad/Brake Buddy
Roadmaster Blackhawk
Guardian Rock Shield
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me1
Kent, WA
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Joined: 06/20/2004
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recently bought a brake pro system for my Jeep CJ Sport. I used it 3 times. First time was driving home from Camping World where I bought the unit and installed it. Second time was to just check it out and get a feel for how it worked. Every thing went fine. Third time was on a weekend camping trip approx 120 miles from home. Worked fine on the way there. I did stop once on the way and checked to see id things were going well. Seemed to be no problem. On the way home I stopped about half way home and it seemed to be going OK. I pressed the test button and it seemed to work as it should.I did not smell hot brakes or any other problems. I then drove to about 5 miles from home and stopped to get gas. (Approx. 55 miles since checking the unit). As soon as I got out of the motorhome I smelled hot brakes. I checked my Jeep and the brakes were extremely hot!
I now have a $1455.00 repair bill. New rotors, calipers, pads, and bearing/hub assembly as well as a master cylinder.
I have no idea what went wrong. Each time I installed the unit I followed the check list that came in the user material??
Any Ideas????
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Bill&Marie
Camarillo, CA, USA
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Joined: 11/16/2003
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me1,
According to Tom's write-up on the BrakePro, a monitor light in the coach should come on if the toad brakes are on. In your case it seems that the monitor light would be on if the toad brakes were on slightly (enough to build up heat) while you were driving. Maybe the box shifted forward to put slight pressure on pedle without having the air cylinder extended.
I have a SMI 4 wire and if the toad brake light switch is on then so is the monitor light on my MH dash. This seems like a better "failsafe" indicator to prevent this kind of problem.
Hope you got it resolved ok.
Bill
Bill & Marie
'04 Winnebago Chieftain 39T
'99 Suzuki Grand Vitara
Picture is South of Quartzsite,AZ.
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Toolmaker13
Amherst,NY
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Joined: 07/27/2004
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Thanks Pulsar just bought our first coach. The supplementary brake info is great
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Jeffe
Greenbrier Arkansas
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Joined: 06/18/2004
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dear pulsar,
your post has saved me many hours of reading the many "bookmarked" brake systems that I have found on-line as I gathered information.
This was a great effort on your part - my many thanks.
I assume brake systems are like exercise equipment, it don't work unless you use it !
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rcpotter
Northern NM
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Joined: 11/20/2002
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Somewhat lengthy; a cautionary tale, and few comments about toad braking:
I had a BLUE OX “AUTOSTOP” toad braking unit. It is contained in a special ball mount. When it senses the toad is pushing on the ball mount (the toad wants to keep moving, while the towing vehicle is stopping), a mechanical cable (“wire rope”) coming out of unit is retracted into the unit. This cable extends backward to the front of the toad, and then enters a flexible guide tube or “conduit” where it continues traveling to the toad’s firewall. It then is looped around the arm above the toad’s brake pedal, so the cable pulls on the brake pedal.
It’s a cheap system compared with some of the others. But from my perspective, it is not a very satisfactory system.
For one thing, the cable is not guided between the ball mount unit and the front of the toad. It hangs freely between them. The cable must have a few inches of slack to allow the toad to swing sideways relative to the towing vehicle when going around a sharp turn. This means that the cable doesn’t start pulling on the toad’s brake pedal as soon as the force on the ball mount occurs. Instead, the toad’s brakes aren’t applied until the toad is already pushing fairly hard on the ball mount. The manufacturer justifies this by saying the unit is “only for surge braking”.
The only time the unit really seems to work is during a hard panic stop. In a really fast stop, such as at a traffic light, the toad suddenly gives a jerk backwards. Otherwise, the toad’s brakes never seem to do much.
Notably, Going down a hill, the cable usually does not pull in enough to engage the brakes, and the towing vehicle must do all the braking for both the towed vehicle and the toad.
A couple of years ago we were traveling in Arizona on route 89A, that passes through Jerome, AZ, with our toad. We knew there was a hill there, but had done it previously in a passenger car, and didn’t remember that it was all that bad. It is actually about a 3300 foot vertical descent, from the top of the pass, down to Clarkdale. (Big rigs, especially with toads, should probably avoid this highway altogether, whether going up or down. Unhitch, and drive the toad by itself up to Jerome, to enjoy a really unique town.)
I took the precaution of crawling down the hill in first gear all the way, occasionally touching the emergency brake to take the load off the front disks (a somewhat controversial practice, in itself). It was slow going, and we had to keep pulling over to let other people pass, but things where proceeding without incident.
After we made it through the winding switchbacks in downtown Jerome, the road straightened out and the speed limit increased. Believing that we had put almost all the hill behind us, I relaxed; and shifted into second. While I had to occasionally apply the brakes, it didn’t seem they were working too hard, and second gear seemed to be doing most of the work holding the rig back. But although it looked like we were near the bottom, we actually had about another 900 vertical feet to go. When we arrived at the intersection in Clarkdale, I couldn’t stop, and went straight through. I was literally standing on the brakes, but they hardly worked at all. Fortunately, there was no oncoming traffic. Heavy acrid smoke was pouring out of the front brakes. We thought the vehicle was on fire. I grabbed the fire extinguisher and we both bailed out of the rig. After a few minutes of extreme agitation, we determined that it was the just front brake pads that were smoking, and the rig wasn’t on fire.
The front brake pads, which were only half worn at the start of the trip, were worn down all the way to the “tell-tales”, which made screaming noises when the brakes were applied, all the rest of the way home. The front bearings were making nasty rumbling sounds. When I got home, as well as the front pads; I had to replace all the front bearings, and have the rotors turned.
The toad’s brakes didn’t appear to have been applied, at all. The toad’s brake disks didn’t show even a slight hint of warmth. I don’t fault the brake systems manufacturer too much for this, they did make a disclaimer that it is a “SURGE” system.
(1) The moral to be drawn from this tale is that SURGE-TYPE BRAKES ARE COMPLETELY UNSUITABLE FOR USE ON A DOWNGRADE OF ANY APPRECIABLE LENGTH. It is imperative to have “PROPORTIONAL” type toad brakes that apply themselves in relation to how much force is being applied to the towing vehicle’s brakes, or at least in DIRECT (NOT DELAYED) PROPORTION to the amount of force that the toad is pushing against the towing vehicle.
(2) I would also note that the “DE-ACCELERATION”-based systems may not work well on ice, loose gravel, or rain-soaked surfaces. If the towing vehicle is sliding, it may not be de-accelerating fast enough to activate the sensors, and the toad’s brake may not be applied. This applies whether the de-acceleration sensor is positioned in the toad, or in a controller in the towing vehicle. This is the kind of situation where the toad’s brakes want to come on at least as hard as the towing vehicle’s brakes. A jackknife could easily result.
(3) For the reason in #2, as well as to suppress fishtailing in an emergency, there should be a way of MANUALLY APPLYING THE TOAD’S BRAKE without applying the towing vehicle brakes.
(4) Some “INVASIVE” systems that sense the towing vehicle brake pressure give true proportional braking. They are probably worth the extra time to install. Often such systems involve tapping into the towing vehicles brake lines, so the job must be done by a COMPETANT person, who knows what they’re doing.
Several years ago, most (trailer) brake controllers tapped into the brake lines. People that used them often think they worked better than the modern ones, which are usually based on some combination of de-acceleration and signals from the brake light. 95% of them worked just fine. The problem was with the other 5%, that were incompetently installed. Because of liability concerns, most brake controller companies now use another scheme.
Somewhere, I think I also remember seeing a system that used a sensor pad that fits over the top of the brake pedal. The main concern with such a system is that it might change the position of the brake pedal surface, making it easier to miss the pedal in an emergency.
* This post was
edited 08/04/04 04:10pm by rcpotter *
Chris
Northern New Mexico
Ancient 20 foot Class C
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bev miller
petaluma, ca. usa
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Joined: 07/23/2004
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I have been reading the information about braking systems and would appreciate hearing from you all regarding the requirement/need for a braking system. I currently tow an 18' i/o boat without a braking system with no problem even in the hills; however, when I talked with the local rv service about setting up my 2004 Winnebago Minnie 31' for a tow bar they said I need the $1,000 braking system. The hitching rating is 5,000 lbs. and I am looking at using my 98 Durango which can be towed 4 down. Their quote is $3,500 for the package. I don't believe the western states where I travel require the braking system by law but would appreciate hearing your opinions/experiences.
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Browzin
anywhere
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Joined: 04/02/2004
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Pulsar
Just wanted to say -- Great Work -- it's post like yours that make this forum as great as it is.
Second reason for my response is to keep this thread alive, for all to read.
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