Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
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I think believing EV's are not viable it because of the lack of charging stations is silly.
At some point there were cars and no gas stations.
The wright bros. didn't give up on the airplane because there were no airports.
The infrastructure will come in time. To think there should be a charging station on every corner at this juncture is foolish.
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Reisender
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Grit dog wrote:So how do ya run and charge those EVs when it’s 0 or -30 outside?
It’s great and all, but the only apartment places that seems to have convenience outlets for each car are also places where EVs don’t fare so well yet.
Even assuming charging immediately after returning home, with a warmed up battery, how much of that 15-20A convenience outlet is actually providing additional charge and how much is charging what the battery is using to maintain temperature?
Again, at this point, the technology is good for some (who also aren’t afraid to spend more money on cars) and not even close to a reality for many.
Just keeping the flip side of the story real, here.
Yah for sure. Ideally a 3 KW or better charge source is better in winter although we did it for a couple years with just a 15 amp plug. Literally used our soffit plug for Christmas lights. But keep in mind that this is all achievable and people make it happen. Generally speaking, the further you go north the higher the adaption rate of EV’s is. Norway has the highest EV adoption rate in the world, now north of 90 percent. Iceland, holland, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany all have high EV adoption rates. Many people start by buying a single EV. Then winter comes and everybody in the house is fighting over who gets to drive the EV. The next year the gas vehicle gets replaced by another EV and it’s an EV household. Literally happened to us. EV’s are super convenient in winter, especially if you have to park outside. Always getting in a warm car. Never having to go to a cold gas pump and freezing your hands. (Charging at home). I could never go back to a gasser in winter and everybody we know driving an EV feels the same.
Here’s our old leaf plugged into our soffit plug. This is back in 2015 or 2016.
![[image]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53250198708_08af0fd3d9_c.jpg)
And yah we get winter here although our lows are typically not below minus 25. Our Tesla model 3.
![[image]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50772046262_35e5ed79e3_c.jpg)
Jmho.
* This post was
edited 10/10/23 10:10pm by Reisender *
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Dadoffourgirls
China, MI USA
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Joined: 05/29/2003
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Reisender wrote:Grit dog wrote:So how do ya run and charge those EVs when it’s 0 or -30 outside?
It’s great and all, but the only apartment places that seems to have convenience outlets for each car are also places where EVs don’t fare so well yet.
Even assuming charging immediately after returning home, with a warmed up battery, how much of that 15-20A convenience outlet is actually providing additional charge and how much is charging what the battery is using to maintain temperature?
Again, at this point, the technology is good for some (who also aren’t afraid to spend more money on cars) and not even close to a reality for many.
Just keeping the flip side of the story real, here.
...Many people start by buying a single EV. Then winter comes and everybody in the house is fighting over who gets to drive the EV. The next year the gas vehicle gets replaced by another EV and it’s an EV household. Literally happened to us. EV’s are super convenient in winter, especially if you have to park outside. Always getting in a warm car. Never having to go to a cold gas pump and freezing your hands. (Charging at home). I could never go back to a gasser in winter and everybody we know driving an EV feels the same. ...
More spin on fueling. Based on your statement, anyone with an EV would only charge in a heated garage, so their hands do not get cold while plugging in. In 3.5 years, I have charged on pay chargers twice. One time was because it was 20 degrees F and I was using heat and did not have enough range. My hands got cold plugging the car in to charge.
At this time, EV adoption is not for everyone, and everywhere. That might be why I have an EV, gas, and diesel in my drive.
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JaxDad
Greater Toronto Area
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Reisender wrote: Generally speaking, the further you go north the higher the adaption rate of EV’s is. Norway has the highest EV adoption rate in the world, now north of 90 percent. Iceland, holland, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany all have high EV adoption rates.
I have family in Finland, the main reason, by a wide margin, for EV ownership is purely financial. People that formerly couldn’t really afford a car, now can, and thank the taxman for that.
Gasoline is ~US$7.50 / gallon, and is garbage fuel from Russia that requires a major detune of most vehicles. Folks with money and performance cars buy gasoline imported from Germany with a 50% premium tacked on. Heavy import duties, huge annual taxes and licensing fees all disappeared with the EV’s
In my family’s case the advantage is so great they have 3 EV’s now for less money than one gasser used to cost.
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RetiredRealtorRick
Gulf Shores, AL
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Lantley wrote:I think believing EV's are not viable it because of the lack of charging stations is silly.
At some point there were cars and no gas stations.
The wright bros. didn't give up on the airplane because there were no airports.
The infrastructure will come in time. To think there should be a charging station on every corner at this juncture is foolish.
"The infrastructure will come in time" . . . Exactly. And until you can tell us precisely when that will happen, the go-to solution, as I see it, is a hybrid. Best of both worlds without the anxiety.
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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Lantley wrote:I think believing EV's are not viable it because of the lack of charging stations is silly.
At some point there were cars and no gas stations.
The wright bros. didn't give up on the airplane because there were no airports.
The infrastructure will come in time. To think there should be a charging station on every corner at this juncture is foolish.
Except there are millions of cars and gas stations right now. EV is 1000% better than walking or riding your horse 100miles. But now that we’ve had cars that do that for 100 years, your comparison is without merit.
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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@reisender, since you have a fairly comprehensive EV knowledge base and years of use under your belt.
How much charge does a guy get level 1 off of a 120v convenience outlet at -25deg?
Again for context, if you drive low miles and are home a long time at night it may be fine.
If I have a 100 mile commute + (I do) and I’m getting home at 8-9pm and leaving at 05:30 and my Ford lightning (cause I need at least a little 1/2 ton truck, minimum) is sitting out in -25 deg weather and I’m using the Xmas light plug to charge it, how many miles of charge (roughly) will I get in that 8-9 hour timeframe in those conditions?
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Groover
Pulaski, TN
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RetiredRealtorRick wrote:Lantley wrote:I think believing EV's are not viable it because of the lack of charging stations is silly.
At some point there were cars and no gas stations.
The wright bros. didn't give up on the airplane because there were no airports.
The infrastructure will come in time. To think there should be a charging station on every corner at this juncture is foolish.
"The infrastructure will come in time" . . . Exactly. And until you can tell us precisely when that will happen, the go-to solution, as I see it, is a hybrid. Best of both worlds without the anxiety.
Can you tell us precisely when the infrastructure for gasoline became adequate? I sincerely doubt it.
However there is a prediction available:
"By late 2024, Tesla would open 3,500 new and existing Superchargers along highway corridors to non-Tesla customers, the Biden administration said. It would also offer 4,000 slower chargers at locations like hotels and restaurants."
Supercharger stations average about 10 chargers each. So about 350 next stations by the end of next year. Personally, I expect that Tesla will surpass that. They had better since vast majority of new EVs will be using the Tesla plug by 2015. Will that be adequate? For many people, yes. Could be improved in following years? Absolutely. Will it be adequate for you? That depends on your definition of adequate and where you drive.
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RetiredRealtorRick
Gulf Shores, AL
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Joined: 04/17/2020
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Groover wrote:RetiredRealtorRick wrote:Lantley wrote:I think believing EV's are not viable it because of the lack of charging stations is silly.
At some point there were cars and no gas stations.
The wright bros. didn't give up on the airplane because there were no airports.
The infrastructure will come in time. To think there should be a charging station on every corner at this juncture is foolish.
"The infrastructure will come in time" . . . Exactly. And until you can tell us precisely when that will happen, the go-to solution, as I see it, is a hybrid. Best of both worlds without the anxiety.
Can you tell us precisely when the infrastructure for gasoline became adequate? I sincerely doubt it.
However there is a prediction available:
"By late 2024, Tesla would open 3,500 new and existing Superchargers along highway corridors to non-Tesla customers, the Biden administration said. It would also offer 4,000 slower chargers at locations like hotels and restaurants."
Supercharger stations average about 10 chargers each. So about 350 next stations by the end of next year. Personally, I expect that Tesla will surpass that. They had better since vast majority of new EVs will be using the Tesla plug by 2015. Will that be adequate? For many people, yes. Could be improved in following years? Absolutely. Will it be adequate for you? That depends on your definition of adequate and where you drive.
"Can you tell us precisely when the infrastructure for gasoline became adequate? I sincerely doubt it."
Is this a history test or a discussion on EV's and our inadequate infrastructure?
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JaxDad
Greater Toronto Area
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RetiredRealtorRick wrote:Groover wrote:RetiredRealtorRick wrote:Lantley wrote:I think believing EV's are not viable it because of the lack of charging stations is silly.
At some point there were cars and no gas stations.
The wright bros. didn't give up on the airplane because there were no airports.
The infrastructure will come in time. To think there should be a charging station on every corner at this juncture is foolish.
"The infrastructure will come in time" . . . Exactly. And until you can tell us precisely when that will happen, the go-to solution, as I see it, is a hybrid. Best of both worlds without the anxiety.
Can you tell us precisely when the infrastructure for gasoline became adequate? I sincerely doubt it.
However there is a prediction available:
"By late 2024, Tesla would open 3,500 new and existing Superchargers along highway corridors to non-Tesla customers, the Biden administration said. It would also offer 4,000 slower chargers at locations like hotels and restaurants."
Supercharger stations average about 10 chargers each. So about 350 next stations by the end of next year. Personally, I expect that Tesla will surpass that. They had better since vast majority of new EVs will be using the Tesla plug by 2015. Will that be adequate? For many people, yes. Could be improved in following years? Absolutely. Will it be adequate for you? That depends on your definition of adequate and where you drive.
"Can you tell us precisely when the infrastructure for gasoline became adequate? I sincerely doubt it."
Is this a history test or a discussion on EV's and our inadequate infrastructure?
There’s a *HUGE* difference between the automobile becoming ubiquitous 120’ish years ago and EV’s catching on.
People weren’t depending on their Model A’s & T’s to get to work, school, grocery shopping, etc, or travelling the country, and not just because there were no highways yet.
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