mbloof
Beaverton, OR
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mkirsch wrote:3 tons wrote:markchengr wrote:Lithium iron phosphate batteries are lithium ion batteries. Same thing. The iron and phosphate are in the form of ions.
Thanks for informing us that all lithium ion batteries are the same thing…
3 tons
When it was strongly implied that they are "diiiiiiiferent" earlier in the thread, seems like a useful point to make.
While they all have "lithium" the chemistry of batteries typically found in portable electronics and that found in electric cars (and used in RV's) are not only very different but also have different operating (and danger!) characteristics.
While not exactly 'apples vs oranges' it is not 'apples vs apples' ether.
Explanation of the different types of Li-ion battery chemistries
- Mark0.
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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3 tons wrote:I believe this article would be less misleading were your heading to read ‘EV batteries and hot weather’… In it’s present form one might conclude it’s content applies to Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry (LiFePo4) commonly used as RV House batteries…
Also after so many of your previous seemingly uninformed, diversionary LFP post, one might also conclude that this was intentional…(legacy matters…)
3 tons
Where’s the like button? Cause you get one for this post!
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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Ole ‘tuna, does it ever get tiring stirring that pot?
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pianotuna
Regina, SK, Canada
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Grit dog wrote:Ole ‘tuna, does it ever get tiring stirring that pot?
I think Li are fine for folks who live in extremely moderate conditions. But they need to have proper care.
Most Li are not robust by nature. The end user needs to take care of how they are charged and battery management systems have evolved to do so.
No amount of care can prevent calendar aging of Li batteries.
In Li's current state of the art only one chemistry would work for my particular needs. That is Lithium Titinate.
Here is some information on them.
https://www.importel.com/product/pwr-s5/........titanate-oxide-battery-12v-5000w-1000-ca
Unfortunately they are pretty much extremely highly priced.
* This post was
edited 07/22/23 09:47pm by pianotuna *
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.
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StirCrazy
Kamloops, BC, Canada
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Grit dog wrote:Ole ‘tuna, does it ever get tiring stirring that pot?
sometimes I think he is in his own little world
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time2roll
Southern California
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pianotuna wrote:Grit dog wrote:Ole ‘tuna, does it ever get tiring stirring that pot?
I think Li are fine for folks who live in extremely moderate conditions. But they need to have proper care. All batteries need some care. LFP needs less than many others.
Most Li are not robust by nature. The end user needs to take care of how they are charged and battery management systems have evolved to do so. So with a BMS this is fully automated and BETTER protected than other batteries.
No amount of care can prevent calendar aging of Li batteries. Yes so sitting idle the LFP will only last 20 to 30 years
In Li's current state of the art only one chemistry would work for my particular needs. That is Lithium Titinate.
Here is some information on them.
https://www.importel.com/product/pwr-s5/........titanate-oxide-battery-12v-5000w-1000-ca
Unfortunately they are pretty much extremely highly priced. So what good is it if price prohibits common use?
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Reisender
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StirCrazy wrote:markchengr wrote:Lithium iron phosphate batteries are lithium ion batteries. Same thing. The iron and phosphate are in the form of ions.
yes, but it's the chemical composition that controls the properties. LFP batteries have a wider range than what is used in cars.
it was 46C here yesterday and my LFP batter in the camper didn't spontaneously combust.
Steve
Hi Steve. Roughly half of the batteries used in electric cars now are LFP. Just over half of Teslas sold use LFP batteries and that number is increasing. Ever changing tech of course.
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pianotuna
Regina, SK, Canada
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Time2roll,
I could not agree more. Since I'm no longer full time and 75 lots of upgrades are not going to happen as they make NO economic sense. SiO2 would be cheaper than LI Titinate--but I don't see that they are cost effective either. Not when I can get great service for used telcom bats at $1 per amp-hour.
I don't have a little mind nor a little world.
* This post was
edited 07/23/23 06:02pm by pianotuna *
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StirCrazy
Kamloops, BC, Canada
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Reisender wrote:StirCrazy wrote:markchengr wrote:Lithium iron phosphate batteries are lithium ion batteries. Same thing. The iron and phosphate are in the form of ions.
yes, but it's the chemical composition that controls the properties. LFP batteries have a wider range than what is used in cars.
it was 46C here yesterday and my LFP batter in the camper didn't spontaneously combust.
Steve
Hi Steve. Roughly half of the batteries used in electric cars now are LFP. Just over half of Teslas sold use LFP batteries and that number is increasing. Ever changing tech of course.
it is far far less than 1/2, I would hazard to guess in the less than 5% range of vehicles sold if you're in north America. tesla just started using LFP in a limited trial last couple years in China and now all Chinese sold tesla's are LFP, and only on the standard range. Ford VW and a couple others are starting to dabble with them
here is a list of care running LFP and they are only available in certain countries in this set up
Tesla Model S
Volkswagen e-Golf
Ford Fusion
Nissan Leaf
Porsche Panamera
BMW 740iL
so the tesla is the standard range model only sold in China.
The rest are not on anyone's list that is seriously looking at electric cars for anything other than going to the grocery store as the range sucks. There is a trade off in using LFP for cars, the negative being less energy density than the others, meaning the same ah of storage takes up more space and weighs more. the benefits being longer life, and a safer chemistry.
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3 tons
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pianotuna wrote:Grit dog wrote:Ole ‘tuna, does it ever get tiring stirring that pot?
I think Li are fine for folks who live in extremely moderate conditions. But they need to have proper care.
Most Li are not robust by nature. The end user needs to take care of how they are charged and battery management systems have evolved to do so.
No amount of care can prevent calendar aging of Li batteries.
In Li's current state of the art only one chemistry would work for my particular needs. That is Lithium Titinate.
Here is some information on them. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/sleep.gif "sleep")
https://www.importel.com/product/pwr-s5/........titanate-oxide-battery-12v-5000w-1000-ca
Unfortunately they are pretty much extremely highly priced.
As spoken by PT, a true ‘expert’ that doesn’t own a LFP (with a checkered history of endlessly disparaging them…), but ‘knows’ whats best for you while committing huge amounts of time promoting his favorite Purple Unicorns like SiO2 and discarded ‘telecom jars’ (whatever those are??), as well as ‘assuming’ the needs of the broader audience requires devices fully operable in minus 40 degree temperatures where he claims to reside and in places like Mars…
3 tons
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