StirCrazy
Kamloops, BC, Canada
Senior Member
Joined: 07/16/2003
View Profile
|
Huntindog wrote:
The fact is that the govt. LT tire testing standards are much more demanding than for ST tires. That being a FACT, it is not hard to understand why STs fail so often.
On another note: LT tire choices in the 16" rim size are many. In fact most if not all manufacturers offer Good, Better, Best models to choose from. Such selection just isn't availible in ST tires. There is a choice of ONE from each manufacturer...So if one wishes to buy a premium ST tire,,,There are none availible....But as an observation of the testing standards, the cheapest LT tire is tested to higher standards than any ST tire.
didn't we have a thread a while ago where we found that the testing standard for both tires is virtually the same, but the LT does one test to a higher speed (partially loaded I believe it was at 60PSI) where the ST does a higher max load test? doesn't sound like it is much more demanding, or a fact.
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100
|
Huntindog
Phoenix AZ
Senior Member
Joined: 04/08/2002
View Profile
|
valhalla360 wrote:Huntindog wrote:valhalla360 wrote:Have you weighed the trailer and checked against Payload rating of the tires?
Also, do you check the tire pressure regularly?
Most blowouts are overloaded or under inflation.
A lot of people going to LTs increase the payload rating and keep a closer eye on pressure...then credit the fact they are LTs. I have not seen what you state of LT tire owners giving false credit to their sucess. I also have not seen any evidence of under inflation being a problem.
In fact every RV forum I have seen has a common theme, on ST tire care.
They check their tires at EVERY opportunity. I myself find this overkill...But then again, I switched to LTs in 2006.Ever since, I have been able to relax about my tires. Can you imagine have to check your automobile tires as much as RVers feel the need to for ST tires?
The fact is that the govt. LT tire testing standards are much more demanding than for ST tires. That being a FACT, it is not hard to understand why STs fail so often.
On another note: LT tire choices in the 16" rim size are many. In fact most if not all manufacturers offer Good, Better, Best models to choose from. Such selection just isn't availible in ST tires. There is a choice of ONE from each manufacturer...So if one wishes to buy a premium ST tire,,,There are none availible....But as an observation of the testing standards, the cheapest LT tire is tested to higher standards than any ST tire.
Govt has been mandating tire pressure systems on cars/trucks for around 15yrs and aftermarket systems for trailers are also very popular, so apparently, someone feels underinflation is an issue and constant monitoring is important.
Most people who switch have no baseline to compare to. It's only after the blowouts that they start randomly trying things to improve the situation...like checking the pressure regularly (or adding a TPMS) or actually getting the RV weighed to make sure they aren't overloaded. Then they switch to LTs at the same time...low and behold, they are less likely to experience a blowout but never systematically tested to see what fixed the problem...then again blowouts are pretty rare to begin with so their changes may have zero impact.
Once you switch to LTs there is a bigger selection but that is mostly about tread patterns (and profitering). For a trailer, there isn't a lot of benefit to off road tires, so little reason to provide a wide variety of tread patterns in ST tires.
I once drank the ST tire koolaid.
My first TT was purchased in 1992. Tire failures started right away.I believed the ST dribble I read about here on the forum. In fact I often debated on this very forum spouting off all of the supposed reasons a ST tire must be used. Many sets of STs, and load range/size increases later, and on TT #2 I threw in the towel on STs. That was in 2006. I am sometimes a slow learner, but I DO learn.
My tires have been trouble free ever since.
Why do you think LT tires have such higher govt. testing standards? Why does it state on the sidewall of an ST, "Not for automobile use? Why is there no such limitation for LT tires? It is perfectly legal to use an LT on a trailer, but ILLEGAL to use an ST on an automobile.
The reason is that people ride in autos, so the tires are mandated to be better.
* This post was
edited 06/28/23 08:54am by Huntindog *
Huntindog
100% boondocking
2021 Grand Design Momentum 398M
2 bathrooms, no waiting
104 gal grey, 104 black,158 fresh
FullBodyPaint, 3,8Kaxles, DiscBrakes
17.5LRH commercial tires
1860watts solar,800 AH Battleborn batterys
2020 Silverado HighCountry CC DA 4X4 DRW
|
Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
Senior Member
Joined: 05/06/2013
View Profile
 Offline
|
2stonesthrow wrote:TIre recommendations? We are towing 8500# travel trailer. We’ve had numerous blowouts with China bombs over the years, partly due to Texas heat and high speeds. We are over the blow outs and need something that will hold. We currently have 15” but looking to go to 16” LT that can handle higher speeds of 75mph. What has worked for you with the higher speeds? Tia!
Since this gets soo off topic, back to your original question. Virtually any load range E tire that fits the rim and fits under the trailer is just fine. You got the rims yet?
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold
|
Huntindog
Phoenix AZ
Senior Member
Joined: 04/08/2002
View Profile
|
StirCrazy wrote:Huntindog wrote:
The fact is that the govt. LT tire testing standards are much more demanding than for ST tires. That being a FACT, it is not hard to understand why STs fail so often.
On another note: LT tire choices in the 16" rim size are many. In fact most if not all manufacturers offer Good, Better, Best models to choose from. Such selection just isn't availible in ST tires. There is a choice of ONE from each manufacturer...So if one wishes to buy a premium ST tire,,,There are none availible....But as an observation of the testing standards, the cheapest LT tire is tested to higher standards than any ST tire.
didn't we have a thread a while ago where we found that the testing standard for both tires is virtually the same, but the LT does one test to a higher speed (partially loaded I believe it was at 60PSI) where the ST does a higher max load test? doesn't sound like it is much more demanding, or a fact.
This is the part you missed:But now the endurance testing diverges significantly.
The ST tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 50 mph. After that, the ST test is over.
The LT tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 75 mph. This is a 50% increase over the ST and will induce significant additional load and heating on the tire during testing. After that, the LT test is not complete. Next a “Low Inflation Pressure Performance” test is performed for the LT tire only. The tire pressure is decreased to 46 psi and the tire is immediately run for an additional 2 hours at 75 mph and 100% of rated load.
Thus, the LT tire endurance test is drastically more intense than the ST endurance test.
|
spoon059
Just north of D.C.
Senior Member
Joined: 10/03/2010
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
StirCrazy wrote:As for endurance, I am sure they are great but at almost 450.00/tire they are not one I'll ever buy...
Those must be the platinum edition Endurance tires. I paid about $130/tire installed on sale for mine. I just got the regular rubber ones though. E rated for weight, 87 mph speed rating.
Not a single problem with them.
2015 Ram CTD
2015 Jayco 29QBS
|
|
|
CapriRacer
Somewhere in the US
Senior Member
Joined: 01/27/2012
View Profile
Offline
|
Huntindog wrote:StirCrazy wrote:Huntindog wrote:
The fact is that the govt. LT tire testing standards are much more demanding than for ST tires. That being a FACT, it is not hard to understand why STs fail so often.
On another note: LT tire choices in the 16" rim size are many. In fact most if not all manufacturers offer Good, Better, Best models to choose from. Such selection just isn't availible in ST tires. There is a choice of ONE from each manufacturer...So if one wishes to buy a premium ST tire,,,There are none availible....But as an observation of the testing standards, the cheapest LT tire is tested to higher standards than any ST tire.
didn't we have a thread a while ago where we found that the testing standard for both tires is virtually the same, but the LT does one test to a higher speed (partially loaded I believe it was at 60PSI) where the ST does a higher max load test? doesn't sound like it is much more demanding, or a fact.
This is the part you missed:But now the endurance testing diverges significantly.
The ST tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 50 mph. After that, the ST test is over.
The LT tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 75 mph. This is a 50% increase over the ST and will induce significant additional load and heating on the tire during testing. After that, the LT test is not complete. Next a “Low Inflation Pressure Performance” test is performed for the LT tire only. The tire pressure is decreased to 46 psi and the tire is immediately run for an additional 2 hours at 75 mph and 100% of rated load.
Thus, the LT tire endurance test is drastically more intense than the ST endurance test.
And here is the part you missed: ST tires are rated for about 20% more load than LT tires. The net effect is the tires are tested at the same load - more or less.
So when installed on a trailer, the load is the same regardless of which type of tire you put on.
********************************************************************
CapriRacer
Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com
|
JIMNLIN
Oklahoma
Senior Member
Joined: 09/14/2003
View Profile
|
One thing we learn when towing trailers for a living is load C/D/E ST tires simply will not stand up to this type of daily work for thousands of miles like a good recommended (tire mfg recommendations) LT tire.
Commercial grade all steel carcass 16" ST load G tires like the Sailun S637 are a class way above a poly carcass 16" ST load C/D/E.
The ST may have extra load capacity over the LT tire but it still doesn't have to pass the higher speed (mph) ratings of the LT tire.
Thats big for a lay person if miles (30k-50k) of trouble free service and reliability are expected from tires on any trailer.
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers
'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides
|
Huntindog
Phoenix AZ
Senior Member
Joined: 04/08/2002
View Profile
|
CapriRacer wrote:Huntindog wrote:StirCrazy wrote:Huntindog wrote:
The fact is that the govt. LT tire testing standards are much more demanding than for ST tires. That being a FACT, it is not hard to understand why STs fail so often.
On another note: LT tire choices in the 16" rim size are many. In fact most if not all manufacturers offer Good, Better, Best models to choose from. Such selection just isn't availible in ST tires. There is a choice of ONE from each manufacturer...So if one wishes to buy a premium ST tire,,,There are none availible....But as an observation of the testing standards, the cheapest LT tire is tested to higher standards than any ST tire.
didn't we have a thread a while ago where we found that the testing standard for both tires is virtually the same, but the LT does one test to a higher speed (partially loaded I believe it was at 60PSI) where the ST does a higher max load test? doesn't sound like it is much more demanding, or a fact.
This is the part you missed:But now the endurance testing diverges significantly.
The ST tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 50 mph. After that, the ST test is over.
The LT tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 75 mph. This is a 50% increase over the ST and will induce significant additional load and heating on the tire during testing. After that, the LT test is not complete. Next a “Low Inflation Pressure Performance” test is performed for the LT tire only. The tire pressure is decreased to 46 psi and the tire is immediately run for an additional 2 hours at 75 mph and 100% of rated load.
Thus, the LT tire endurance test is drastically more intense than the ST endurance test.
And here is the part you missed: ST tires are rated for about 20% more load than LT tires. The net effect is the tires are tested at the same load - more or less.
So when installed on a trailer, the load is the same regardless of which type of tire you put on. I did not miss that.
Size for size STs do come with a higher load rating. But both types are tested to their load rating.... I think the 20% figure is on the high end though. I do not remember it being that much on the tires I had. So when making the swap. one has to be sure the tire has the load rating needed. It's not that hard to do. and if you want a reliable tire you can do it. Imagine TT tires that one doesn't have to check on at every stop. Have a rabbi bless them, rub baby oil on them, sacrifice a chicken etc. just to have them fail anyways. It can be done.One can have TT tires every bit as reliable as automobile tires. Just get over the ST tire love fest... They will not love you back
|
StirCrazy
Kamloops, BC, Canada
Senior Member
Joined: 07/16/2003
View Profile
|
Huntindog wrote:StirCrazy wrote:Huntindog wrote:
The fact is that the govt. LT tire testing standards are much more demanding than for ST tires. That being a FACT, it is not hard to understand why STs fail so often.
On another note: LT tire choices in the 16" rim size are many. In fact most if not all manufacturers offer Good, Better, Best models to choose from. Such selection just isn't availible in ST tires. There is a choice of ONE from each manufacturer...So if one wishes to buy a premium ST tire,,,There are none availible....But as an observation of the testing standards, the cheapest LT tire is tested to higher standards than any ST tire.
didn't we have a thread a while ago where we found that the testing standard for both tires is virtually the same, but the LT does one test to a higher speed (partially loaded I believe it was at 60PSI) where the ST does a higher max load test? doesn't sound like it is much more demanding, or a fact.
This is the part you missed:But now the endurance testing diverges significantly.
The ST tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 50 mph. After that, the ST test is over.
The LT tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 75 mph. This is a 50% increase over the ST and will induce significant additional load and heating on the tire during testing. After that, the LT test is not complete. Next a “Low Inflation Pressure Performance” test is performed for the LT tire only. The tire pressure is decreased to 46 psi and the tire is immediately run for an additional 2 hours at 75 mph and 100% of rated load.
Thus, the LT tire endurance test is drastically more intense than the ST endurance test.
but what you are missing is if a ST tire is rated for a higher speed, then it had to be tested at that speed. I know some of the tests are more stringent for a LT tire as they carry people, where as a ST tire carries well nothing that can't be replaced so if you drive over the tested design speed that's on you. The ones I just put on my 5th are rated up to 75MPH so they would have to be tested at that to get that rating. do I ever drive that fast, no. I just finished a 1000 mile round trip and locked the speed control in at 60mph.
the biggest reason for blowouts with ST tires is User error, I know we hate to hear that stuff is our own fault or road hazards. 9 out of 10 are people not checking pressure, not inspecting their tires, driving too fast on lower rated tires, buying the cheapest of cheap tires to save a buck, or just plain old road hazards. Potholes, for example, can put a week spot in the tire a year later when you are traveling on a hot day at close to the capacity in speed or weight and all of a sudden it blows. You can't explain it as the damage happened last season and just held till now.
Just like LT tires you don't go out and look for the absolute cheapest one that isn't rated for your truck when loaded or the speed you drive at, but why do we do that with our RV's. Yes, the manufacturer will put the cheapest ones they can get that are legal for the weight and they don't care about speed as the paperwork for the tires says 50mpg and that's on you if you drive it faster. the tires that came on my rv were capable of hauling the weight and close to the speed I drive but not quite. I had one blowout after 6 years of use. my old trailer I never had a blow out till 10 years of use (yes those tires should have been changed but I didn't know much about inspecting them at that point in time.) On my 5th wheel I found a broken bead and changed that one out two years ago, last year I had a blow out, then for this year I changed all 4 out so they were matching, and I found one of the other older ones had tread separation starting. the factory tires had a 2-2-1 belt design and used nylon and polyester as well as steel belts. My new ones are rated to 75mph, use a 2-2-2 construction and are all steel construction. so I got these ones figuring I would kick the major upgrade down the road another 5 or 6 years as to move to the sailun I need new rims also. These ones are rated at 1300 lbs higher than the weight that will be on them so there is buffer on the speed and the capacity.
LT or ST is a personal choice and people will argue about it all day, throwing facts to skew the discussion one way or another to suit them selves. in the end if you have cheap tires and one blows upgrade to a better tire that suits how you drive and the weight you have on them. if you drive 80mph then ya probably no ST tire is rated over 75mph so you need to look at LT tires. if you drive 70 then there are options in both.
|
StirCrazy
Kamloops, BC, Canada
Senior Member
Joined: 07/16/2003
View Profile
|
JIMNLIN wrote:One thing we learn when towing trailers for a living is load C/D/E ST tires simply will not stand up to this type of daily work for thousands of miles like a good recommended (tire mfg recommendations) LT tire.
Commercial grade all steel carcass 16" ST load G tires like the Sailun S637 are a class way above a poly carcass 16" ST load C/D/E.
The ST may have extra load capacity over the LT tire but it still doesn't have to pass the higher speed (mph) ratings of the LT tire.
Thats big for a lay person if miles (30k-50k) of trouble free service and reliability are expected from tires on any trailer.
you can get load grade e in all steel also, that's what I put on the 5th this year while I save up for the new rims I need for the sailun
|
|
|
|
