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 > Will Air bags make a big difference?

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Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 05/20/23 09:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

GaryS1953 wrote:

KD4UPL wrote:

Do you have P or LT tires in the truck? 35 pounds of air can't be enough. You should have LT tires inflated to I'd guess 40 to 50 psi depending on weight.
You are very likely over your trucks GVWR. You are quite likely over your tire weights if the are P tires.
I have P tires, and you are right, and actually I should have a 3/4 ton truck, but that just isn't in the cards : ). Beginning to think I just need to sell this camper and go back to something smaller.


Well Gary, idk how difficult your life is, but I’mma have to say you sound pretty soft in this last statement….
Not even sure why you posted this if you refuse to answer questions or provide info to help with what seems to be now a go/no go decision in your mind.
Best of luck to you and as a reminder, you have to be at least slight knowledgeable or at least helpful in providing info when you’re relying on others to fix your problem.


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Grit dog

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Posted: 05/20/23 10:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

And before you or someone takes offense to ^, assuming you have a newer half ton with somewhere between an 8-12k tow rating, you DONT need a 3/4 ton, you just need to do a little proper prep work to your truck to handle the tongue weight ….maybe…since you haven’t answered that question either.

GaryS1953

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Posted: 05/20/23 04:55pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

GaryS1953 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Empty weight is irrelevant and payload often runs out before tow rating.

Swing by a CAT scale and find out what the real weights are (loaded as if you are going on a trip). Take 3 measurements (after the first, you can do re-weighs for like $3, so probably $20-25 total).
- Fully hooked up with the WDH connected.
- Hooked up but disconnect the WDH bars.
- Just the truck.

With this info, you can determine the actual weight of the trailer and the actual hitch weight. Then you can determine the hitch weight and if the truck is overloaded.

On the door of the truck are stickers that provide overall and per axle payload ratings.

It might be that the trucks rear suspension is overloaded or it could be the opposite and the hitch weight is too low. If it's too low, airbags won't help.


I may get to a cat scale, but in the meantime could you elaborate? What is meant by "hitch weight is too low"? Thanks!


Hitch weight should be minimum 10%. Ideally between 12-15% (more is actually better but unlikely your truck could handle it).

Assuming you are at 8000lb loaded (guess based on empty weight plus a couple thousand in cargo, which is very realistic when you figure water, propane, batteries, etc...). You should be looking at around 1000-1200lb hitch weight. Add in say 4 people plus firewood, cooler etc... in the truck. All that counts against payload. You could easily have 2000lb on the truck and most half tons have around 1500lb payload (it can vary drastically). That would leave you over payload and with the squishy suspension on lighter duty 1/2 ton trucks, it can feel squirrely when driving. Airbags can help with the ride if you are overloaded but you are still overloaded, so it's masking the issue.

Alternatively, if you are light on hitch weight say 8%, even if the truck is fine, the trailer can get squirrely. Airbags won't help with this issue.

As previously mentioned, factory empty weights are irrelevant. They don't include any gear you put in the trailer, water, propane, batteries, any aftermarket bolt on items, etc..., so reality is you will never tow at empty weights.


Ok, so I did several things today. I checked and aired up all tires for truck and trailer to max. Then I measured front and rear of the truck with and without the trailer hooked up. Finally I went to a cat scale and got combination weight and weight of truck and camper.

Truck Measures without hooked up
Front 35.75"
Rear 37.75"

Truck Measure after hooked up
Front 36.00"
Rear 36.25

Cat Scale
Combination 12520 lbs
Camper 5980 lbs
truck 6540 lbs

Any further help is appreciated.


Gary in Michigan
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Durb

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Posted: 05/20/23 05:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Your truck's keester is still squatting 1.5" with your weight distribution hitch set up. I would apply more tension to the bars by tilting the hitch head down and transferring more weight to your front tires. Try to get your rear measurement to 37.25". Wouldn't hurt.

The problem with air bags is that it hardens the rear suspension creating a fulcrum. Adding weight (tongue weight) far behind the rear axle creates a lever and will cause your front axle to unload. The reason your 5th wheel of almost equivalent weight didn't have the same effect is because the weight was directly over the rear axle.

I assume you weighed the truck with the trailer attached and also weighed the trailer's axles. It would be nice to know what the truck weighs without the trailer attached to help determine your tongue weight. If your axles come in at 5,980 and you have 12% tongue weight, then your trailer weighs 6,795 pounds with 815 pounds of tongue weight. Starting to get kind of heavy for a half ton truck.

Grit dog

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Posted: 05/20/23 05:48pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

4 pages later, you’ve only provided info that your setup isn’t anywhere near being overloaded or dangerous.

It’s a few hundred bucks and it will stiffen up the rear suspension if that’s your preference

GaryS1953

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Posted: 05/20/23 06:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FWIW the camper specs say the tongue weight is 663 lbs. Not sure how to go about adding more tension to the hitch bars. It's a Curt with integrated sway control, and the hitch iself has several different attachment points for the ball, supposedly rated for up to 10,000 lbs.

MFL

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Posted: 05/20/23 06:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

You don't mention what your P-rated truck tire max pressure is, but in any case, the front truck tires would not need to be at max pressure. You are not adding much extra wt to truck steer axle. Truck rear tires at max sidewall pressure.

Jerry





GaryS1953

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Posted: 05/20/23 06:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MFL wrote:

You don't mention what your P-rated truck tire max pressure is, but in any case, the front truck tires would not need to be at max pressure. You are not adding much extra wt to truck steer axle. Truck rear tires at max sidewall pressure.

Jerry
Jerry, the truck tires max pressure is 35 psi which is where I have them at.

GaryS1953

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Posted: 05/20/23 07:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Durb wrote:

Your truck's keester is still squatting 1.5" with your weight distribution hitch set up. I would apply more tension to the bars by tilting the hitch head down and transferring more weight to your front tires. Try to get your rear measurement to 37.25". Wouldn't hurt.

The problem with air bags is that it hardens the rear suspension creating a fulcrum. Adding weight (tongue weight) far behind the rear axle creates a lever and will cause your front axle to unload. The reason your 5th wheel of almost equivalent weight didn't have the same effect is because the weight was directly over the rear axle.

I assume you weighed the truck with the trailer attached and also weighed the trailer's axles. It would be nice to know what the truck weighs without the trailer attached to help determine your tongue weight. If your axles come in at 5,980 and you have 12% tongue weight, then your trailer weighs 6,795 pounds with 815 pounds of tongue weight. Starting to get kind of heavy for a half ton truck.


I'm not sure I understand about putting tension on the bars by "tilting the hitch head down". I have a Curt 17601 weight distribution hitch with integrated sway control. I don't know how I would tilt the hitch head, but I could raise the height of the equalizing/sway bars, which obviously would put more tension on them. Is that what you meant?

Thanks, Gary

valhalla360

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Posted: 05/20/23 07:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

GaryS1953 wrote:


Cat Scale
Combination 12520 lbs
Camper 5980 lbs
truck 6540 lbs

Any further help is appreciated.


CAT should have gave you weights per axle. What were those with and without the trailer hooked up.

Also, something isn't making sense with the camper weight. If the empty weight is 5777, that would imply you only have about 200lb in the trailer. Batteries and propane would add that much. Did you take the trailer & truck loaded as if you were going camping? No sense getting weight data that doesn't match what you will actually be towing.


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