mbloof
Beaverton, OR
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notsobigjoe wrote:SkiBumAt50 wrote:Grit dog wrote:^your last sentence says it all.
You’re not going to do “better” than starting off with a 4 season camper. And with that it’ll handle below freezing temps and running water, to a point. Basement model TCs are decent here if they have or you can improve heated air exchange to the “basement”.
Reasonably the furnace will keep the camper warm down to single digit temperatures. But it will chew thru LP and battery power FAST.
Keeping the water on will just be a test. It’s not magic. But more challenging in below freezing temps. But you get what you put into it.
I was able to use our AF camper with no mods for better heat/air circulation in single digits at night 20s and sunny daytime but that was real close to the practical limit I’m sure.
A little diesel heater is a GREAT idea. And something I would do 100% if planning on any sort of regular cold weather use. And they’re relatively inexpensive. Just need to address the logistics and install.
For efficiency this would be your primary heat and the mouse turd toaster would be the redundant portion since it’s much less efficient.
An engine coolant radiator hookup in the camper is a bad idea. Scratch that one off the list. I suppose it’s possible but in no way practical. Same for the suggestion of plumbing from the truck diesel tank for a little add on diesel heater. Another solution that doesn’t solve a problem but only creates complexity and potential for failure points.
Thanks for the response. Yeah my reasoning for the Diesel heater is to limit what you are saying. One, if I can use diesel to supplement heat for travel, I can extend the time the generator can run. I've also seen some set ups with LiFePo batteries that use the truck to back up or primary charge the systems. My use case is 3 or 4 days at a time with a lot of travel in between so I mainly need 24 hours of boondocking typically.
I get your reluctance on complexity, and maybe I'm looking at it with my Engineer brain and thinking its just a matter of the right bits and pieces. I'll keep it in mind. Of course I'd do it in a way that didn't jeopardize the engine/truck systems (again more complexity).
What exactly is a diesel heater?
It is my understanding that much like a propane furnace a "diesel heater" (read - actually a furnace) draws combustion air from the outside and vents its exhaust to the outside.
The "flame" heats one side of a "heat exchanger" where cabin air is drawn in and blown out on the other side of it.
The CLAIMED current draw of some of the models available are less than the stock OEM Atwood/Suburban/?? propane furnaces.
- Mark0.
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jimh406
Western MT
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notsobigjoe wrote:What exactly is a diesel heater?
It's just a small heater that burns diesel fuel. I think most people use them in tents.
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notsobigjoe
southeast
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Joined: 09/15/2016
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SkiBumAt50 wrote:Grit dog wrote:^your last sentence says it all.
You’re not going to do “better” than starting off with a 4 season camper. And with that it’ll handle below freezing temps and running water, to a point. Basement model TCs are decent here if they have or you can improve heated air exchange to the “basement”.
Reasonably the furnace will keep the camper warm down to single digit temperatures. But it will chew thru LP and battery power FAST.
Keeping the water on will just be a test. It’s not magic. But more challenging in below freezing temps. But you get what you put into it.
I was able to use our AF camper with no mods for better heat/air circulation in single digits at night 20s and sunny daytime but that was real close to the practical limit I’m sure.
A little diesel heater is a GREAT idea. And something I would do 100% if planning on any sort of regular cold weather use. And they’re relatively inexpensive. Just need to address the logistics and install.
For efficiency this would be your primary heat and the mouse turd toaster would be the redundant portion since it’s much less efficient.
An engine coolant radiator hookup in the camper is a bad idea. Scratch that one off the list. I suppose it’s possible but in no way practical. Same for the suggestion of plumbing from the truck diesel tank for a little add on diesel heater. Another solution that doesn’t solve a problem but only creates complexity and potential for failure points.
Thanks for the response. Yeah my reasoning for the Diesel heater is to limit what you are saying. One, if I can use diesel to supplement heat for travel, I can extend the time the generator can run. I've also seen some set ups with LiFePo batteries that use the truck to back up or primary charge the systems. My use case is 3 or 4 days at a time with a lot of travel in between so I mainly need 24 hours of boondocking typically.
I get your reluctance on complexity, and maybe I'm looking at it with my Engineer brain and thinking its just a matter of the right bits and pieces. I'll keep it in mind. Of course I'd do it in a way that didn't jeopardize the engine/truck systems (again more complexity).
What exactly is a diesel heater?
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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^I get it. Whatever works best for you is what works best.
The big thing with moisture is volume introduced via external stuff (the wet ski gear) and the lack of good air circulation. The forced air furnace (mouse turd burner lol) does a lot to dry the air but trust me. Few people for a few days in cold weather in a TC will be a challenge to keep humidity and condensation under control. You can. It’s not prohibitive, just a bit of a challenge.
You can charge from the truck somewhat efficiently with a good size DCDC charger.
Still, your engineer sense should guide you from over complicating things like plumbing into the truck fuel tank. Besides those little heaters only use like a half gallon of diesel a day or something minuscule. Nothing a little fuel can and 5 min a day can’t keep full.
If I have any control over it I WILL be doing very similar to you again in the future. And having run a couple TCs thru the gamut from driving to AK to outrunning tornados in the Midwest and boonie docking in the Rockies and cascades, what you’re planning is a great setup.
Cheers!
* This post was
edited 05/04/23 04:43pm by Grit dog *
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Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold
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SkiBumAt50
Upstate NY
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JimK-NY wrote:This whole idea sounds like a nightmare to me. I have to ask, why?
I would not want to take a trip with 2 adults and 3 teenagers jammed into a small RV even in the Summer. In Winter with temps down to the teens, that is likely to be a miserable experience. You have already heard about some of the issues; e.g, trying to heat the RV, moisture and condensation issues, RVs that are really not well insulated or designed for that sort of use. At the end of a ski day, where are you planning on putting all of that wet gear, skies, boots, clothing?
If you do attempt this insanity, I highly recommend you stay at a campground with hookups. At least you will have electricity to run the furnace and you can even substitute space heaters instead of the furnace. Regardless of the insulation, you are going to need plenty of heat so that you can bring in lots of outside air to try to fight the humidity problem.
Again, why even consider this? The cost for a handful of trips a year is going to be much higher than overnight stays in hotels/motels or even nice resorts.
Mobile ski base. That's why.
I don't ski a couple of trips a year. I ski 2-3 times a week. For the add on of $250 bucks I can Ski in several places all over the country, here in NY there are several places in that range within 2-3 hours. Add in 6 hour drive and now you've added even more options.
I also fish on the Salmon River and I've done in it while it was snowing.
I work remotely. My kids are going off to college (one in a 2 years the others shortly after). I travel a lot especially in the NE for my job. They primarily won't be with me 90% of the time, like I said it'd be mostly my wife. We have a lake house for "family time".
I can easily drive to a ski resort, find a place to boondock, ski, work and drive home on a Wednesday for example (I've taken conferece calls at the ski slope and standing in a river). I was in Concord MA last week for business. In the winter there were 4-5 ski slopes I could have easily stopped at.
I don't seem to experience the wetness like you are describing. I drive with my Ski's and boots in the trunk of my car (arm rest pass through) and never have problems with moisture. My ski pants and jacket are generally pretty dry too, although this season we did get a lot of rain. My plan was to put the boots in the tub, and hang the rest on a coat hanger like I normally do. I throw my boots on a dryer when I get home, but don't know if I'd do that when traveling.
If I'm asking too much, I get that. It maybe just me dry camping then. Kenny of All Trades seems to do just fine dry camping. Even an afternoon of heat in the parking lot at a ski resort is fine for my wife. I tend to ski way longer than she does, and if she could kick back and read a book after she's done that would suit her well.
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SkiBumAt50
Upstate NY
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Grit dog wrote:^your last sentence says it all.
You’re not going to do “better” than starting off with a 4 season camper. And with that it’ll handle below freezing temps and running water, to a point. Basement model TCs are decent here if they have or you can improve heated air exchange to the “basement”.
Reasonably the furnace will keep the camper warm down to single digit temperatures. But it will chew thru LP and battery power FAST.
Keeping the water on will just be a test. It’s not magic. But more challenging in below freezing temps. But you get what you put into it.
I was able to use our AF camper with no mods for better heat/air circulation in single digits at night 20s and sunny daytime but that was real close to the practical limit I’m sure.
A little diesel heater is a GREAT idea. And something I would do 100% if planning on any sort of regular cold weather use. And they’re relatively inexpensive. Just need to address the logistics and install.
For efficiency this would be your primary heat and the mouse turd toaster would be the redundant portion since it’s much less efficient.
An engine coolant radiator hookup in the camper is a bad idea. Scratch that one off the list. I suppose it’s possible but in no way practical. Same for the suggestion of plumbing from the truck diesel tank for a little add on diesel heater. Another solution that doesn’t solve a problem but only creates complexity and potential for failure points.
Thanks for the response. Yeah my reasoning for the Diesel heater is to limit what you are saying. One, if I can use diesel to supplement heat for travel, I can extend the time the generator can run. I've also seen some set ups with LiFePo batteries that use the truck to back up or primary charge the systems. My use case is 3 or 4 days at a time with a lot of travel in between so I mainly need 24 hours of boondocking typically.
I get your reluctance on complexity, and maybe I'm looking at it with my Engineer brain and thinking its just a matter of the right bits and pieces. I'll keep it in mind. Of course I'd do it in a way that didn't jeopardize the engine/truck systems (again more complexity).
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jimh406
Western MT
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JimK-NY wrote:I would not want to take a trip with 2 adults and 3 teenagers jammed into a small RV even in the Summer. In Winter with temps down to the teens, that is likely to be a miserable experience.
It depends on how much time is spent in the TC. I can't say I enjoy extended periods of time in mine even by myself or with my wife.
However, I made a trip last year for a few days with 6 of us. 3 were grandkids with my daughter. We were outside almost all of the day enjoying Yellowstone. We also stopped at a KOA to let the kids swim for a day. We basically only used the TC for making meals and sleeping when I wasn't grilling. Of course, that means you need somewhere to sit if you are hanging outside like I was part of the time.
Similarly, it depends on where they are wanting to ski. Many ski areas out West (any way) have power at their RV parking for a small fee. Also, there is nothing to say they couldn't stay at a hotel/airbnb etc from time to time.
A TC certainly isn't as roomy as a large Class A or Fifth wheel, but it's not like those wouldn't have issues where there is significant snow. All have to find somewhere to dump etc., and most would eventually need a power hookup. Finally, putting several people in an RV for days without a break wouldn't be my idea of fun either. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
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notsobigjoe
southeast
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Joined: 09/15/2016
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JimK-NY wrote:This whole idea sounds like a nightmare to me. I have to ask, why?
I would not want to take a trip with 2 adults and 3 teenagers jammed into a small RV even in the Summer. In Winter with temps down to the teens, that is likely to be a miserable experience. You have already heard about some of the issues; e.g, trying to heat the RV, moisture and condensation issues, RVs that are really not well insulated or designed for that sort of use. At the end of a ski day, where are you planning on putting all of that wet gear, skies, boots, clothing?
If you do attempt this insanity, I highly recommend you stay at a campground with hookups. At least you will have electricity to run the furnace and you can even substitute space heaters instead of the furnace. Regardless of the insulation, you are going to need plenty of heat so that you can bring in lots of outside air to try to fight the humidity problem.
Again, why even consider this? The cost for a handful of trips a year is going to be much higher than overnight stays in hotels/motels or even nice resorts.
The only way it can be done is with supplemental heating. IE, Hooked to electricity. On my 1181 it has a large pull out drawer which I removed for cold camping. I put one of those small cube heaters pointing straight in and nothing froze. the floor was even warmish. A small fan was clipped to the bathroom door for warm air to the cab over. A Vortec electric heater was then used as the main heat for the TC unit. It never shut off. The propane heat was really only used at night but it ran every minute with the exception of about 10 / 20 seconds when it would get to temp. 2 30LB tanks lasted 4 days doing it this way with above modifications. The first trip the propane was gone 1.5 days.
One more point is that I never went to a campground that far north over that cold of a season, there are none open as far as I know. We would camp in dads driveway over Christmas in Rome NY and it was bitterly cold. The snowbelt in NY is about as cold as it gets south of Canada. It can be done but it's a ton of work but it wasn't all those years ago...
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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JimK-NY wrote:This whole idea sounds like a nightmare to me. I have to ask, why?
I would not want to take a trip with 2 adults and 3 teenagers jammed into a small RV even in the Summer. In Winter with temps down to the teens, that is likely to be a miserable experience. You have already heard about some of the issues; e.g, trying to heat the RV, moisture and condensation issues, RVs that are really not well insulated or designed for that sort of use. At the end of a ski day, where are you planning on putting all of that wet gear, skies, boots, clothing?
If you do attempt this insanity, I highly recommend you stay at a campground with hookups. At least you will have electricity to run the furnace and you can even substitute space heaters instead of the furnace. Regardless of the insulation, you are going to need plenty of heat so that you can bring in lots of outside air to try to fight the humidity problem.
Again, why even consider this? The cost for a handful of trips a year is going to be much higher than overnight stays in hotels/motels or even nice resorts.
Not that the OP likely gives a carp about your opinion of his family camping arrangements, but to your point, he did say something like “when the kids are off to college” he wants to get a truck camper…so what was your point?
And fwiw, I’d think you know this beings you’re from the snow belt as well, but campgrounds with hookups basically don’t exist when you can ski down hills on snow….
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daily double
ketchum ok.
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