SkiBumAt50
Upstate NY
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Ok, so lots of questions.
First off, let me introduce myself. I've got 3 kids who will all be off to college in the next 5 years or so. My wife and I have always loved traveling and we are avid skiers (Me moreso than her). We live in Upstate NY and have 2 dogs and a Cat.
So for when the kids go off to college for my next adventure I've settled on getting a truck camper. I've ruled out other vehicles for a few reasons. First, I have some towing needs, that some of the 4x4 vans can't accommodate. My two big goals for the TC are using it to drive to different ski resorts here in the North East, and driving it to fishing spots to fly fish. I will get a 4x4 but have no intentions of wheeling it hard; just rough roads and bad weather.
I think I've settled on a Lance 1172 or possibly a 975. I'll mate it to a Ford F550, (possibly super single conversion.) although I haven't decided on the upfitter yet.
I have a large shop that I can park it in, that's heated even in the winter. I built it with an RV in mind so large overhead door, electric drop, pull through, etc.
So first question, those of you that use your water in the winter I assume you are driving with the heat on? I'm pretty handy and would even consider adding a diesel heater to supplement in the winter. This really works if my wife can hop in and go, take showers, use the toilet etc. She doesn't Ski as much as me and is more than happy to go back and kick back with a book while I chase the last lift.
Those of you with the larger Lances what's your experience been? My typical winters here in NY are often down in the single digits (-17C for my Canadian friends) and while I've seen the Lances in person a few times it seems like maybe they'd need a bit more customizing to boost the low end? Do people find the bed warm enough in the really cold? I know some people use the bed systems to get an air gap, etc.
We've been to a few RV shows and the Lance seems to fit our needs the best. I like the room versus Bigfoot, and they seem to be a little more modern than Northern Lite, especially now with the Truma heating and AC. Does anyone use the dehumidifier in the winter? Hows that work?
I also work remotely and might occasionally take it for customer visits if I can reasonably get away with it, so I'll likely equip it with decent internet.
Anyone have any experiences similar to this they care to share? Am I asking too much of it?
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Photomike
Southern Alberta or where the camper is parked!
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I don't have a Lance camper but I do have a lot of experience winter camping down to the -40's C. So let me address a few of your comments on your winter camping.
The first thing is, and probably the hardest thing, is finding a place to fill up your water and a place to dump your tanks. Hopefully your heated shop already has this. Then you can fill before you leave and dump when you get home.
Having a heated shop will mean that you don't have to winterize the camper after every trip which will save you a lot of time and issues.
Myself I wouldn't go through the hassle of adding a diesel heater. When I had my truck camper and my motorhome I just used the propane heater and they both worked fine.
Now that I have a van I do have an Espar gas heater which is similar to the diesel that I use in the winter. I love this heater but running two heaters in your camper would be a little redundant - Space, ducting, carrying extra fuel.
One of the biggest issues with the diesel would be that you would need to have it so that it vents into the underbelly to keep your tanks warm and your pipes warm as well. So you may as well just utilize the propane heater that you would have and just carry an extra propane tank if needed.
If you plan on going to locations that have plugins you could take a electric heater as well to help / cut down on propane use but again remember that having your furnace running will not only keep the inside of the truck camper warm but it also keeps your pipes and water warm as well. You may want to keep the circulating fan on if you are using another heat source.
As far as using the toilet in the winter I do not see an issue with that as long as you have a four season camper.
The thing that I would question would be having a shower in the winter time. I doubt that any place that you would go would have running water and using the water on board in a truck camper to have showers you'll go through your fresh water really fast and you will fill up your gray tanks in no time.
Myself I would suggest in the winter time that you use the facilities at the ski hill (If they have them) to have a shower. It just saves so many potential issues.
As far as having something underneath the bed to allow air circulation that's done as much to prevent mold as it is to keep it warm. Maybe even more so in the preventing of the mold.
My system used to be in the morning after breakfast I would open up the roof vents and the back door and suck in a pile of fresh cold dry air to exchange the warm humid air. I never did have an issue with mold and I still don't have in my current van.
The biggest benefit of a van for me in the winter is that you're always exchanging the air as you're driving. Thew dash air circulates around keeping the van a lot drier than the truck camper ever was. My Class C was the same as the van is in the air from the dash would move around the back and help to dry it out when we were on the road. If it was not crazy cold I would open a rear vent in the Class C while driving to move more air.
Finally remember when winter camping the space/volume of air in the camper is small and you are VERY CLOSE to the walls. I've had a number of people tell me that they can never get warm in a small camper. A couple reasons for this is that when you open the door a lot of the warm air gets pulled out and a lot of cold air comes in so it cools off quickly. Likewise you will notice your furnace will run a lot more then at home as you do not have a lot of air to hold heat.
Finally you're close to the walls when you're in the camper. You're not 4, 5, 6 ft away from the cold walls like you are in the house. A lot of people can feel the cold from the walls and it makes them feel chilled when they're camping.
Not that you cannot do it but just a few things to consider.
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StirCrazy
Kamloops, BC, Canada
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I kind of like the idea of adding a diesel heater providing you plumb it from the truck's tank so you don't have to carry jerry cans of diesel, and you make it so it heats the tank areas as well as the living area. this would be the best of both worlds, run out of propane you still have heat available, and while your driving you don't waist any propane
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3 tons
NV.
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The so called moniker of ‘4 Season’ is merely a marketing term used to move campers - Trust that’s it’s true meaning is in the eye of the unsuspecting beholder…
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schlep1967
Harrisburg, PA
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4 seasons. Summer in Minnesota, spring and fall almost anywhere and winter in Florida. It will work in all four seasons.... as long as you use the wheels you have it mounted on properly.
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notsobigjoe
southeast
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schlep1967 wrote:4 seasons. Summer in Minnesota, spring and fall almost anywhere and winter in Florida. It will work in all four seasons.... as long as you use the wheels you have it mounted on properly.
There's a lot of truth to this statement. I don't think Lance ever intended there TC's to be used in artic weather. They are a beautiful camper and I love mine but survival was and is not in the 4 seasons plan.
Now, OP I'm commenting on my Lance 1181 and have no idea how your new 1172 will be as far as cold weather. My Lance did well after several upgrades that I got ideas from here on this forum and LOA.
There are six big holes in my camper. Large skylight over the tub, Exhaust fan over the stove, "dampener is useless". The Roof AC. The escape hatch over the bed. vent in the bathroom and kitchen area. Everything at camping world worked but increased the humidity by a lot.
Exhaust fan over stove. I taped some Styrofoam insulation over the outside after I wedged out the design of the outside vent. It worked!
the bedroom. I placed bath towels above the retractable screen to insulate and absorb moisture. This worked great until it broke the screen. Then I supported the towels with a simple dowel system used with shower rod holders. You'll have to replace the towels once a day before bed or they'll drip. Wring out the wet set and replace with dry, rinse repeat...
The tub skylight had an existing snap curtain that was hefty enough to support a nice chunk of the pink or blue Styrofoam. I leave one side unsnapped and the moisture will drain. This has never been a problem.
The AC was easy as well. I pulled off the bottom cover and stuffed some of these
https://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Panels-Soundproof-Insulation-Absorbing/dp/B07MCGRV7M/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2TBTKR7F3MZKM&keywords=insulation%2Bpanels&qid=1683066607&sprefix=insulation%2B%2Caps%2C111&sr=8-2-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyNUZRMUdIWUhHUjhBJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzM0MzAxMTRWMFkwWlgwTjFZTiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDkxOTgwM0swT0o4OFBOOTY1RSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1
up through the opening and reinstalled the bottom cover. Worked great!!!
The two remaining roof vents have ceiling fans. Not much worked here so I also put some of the expanding foam in the dome on top and didn't mess with it till I got home.
Every other opening was covered with the blue insulation board inside the door. Water inlet, propane, both flip up storage doors, etc...
All of this stuff works well in Florida where I now live without stuffing the AC box off course.
You'll more than likely have to push heat to the bedroom and storage tanks with some kind of fan.
I have much much more but it will all be covered by others. I lived 25 years in Binghamton NY and know your part of the woods.
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mkirsch
Rochester, NY
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You can only expect so much out of the couple of inches of insulation that they can stuff into the walls. For sure the heater is going to be running a LOT in a typical Upstate New York winter, if not constantly.
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SkiBumAt50
Upstate NY
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Thanks all for the comments. I get that I maybe asking a lot of the camper. While it's an expensive task, I'm not ready for a full Earthroamer yet. I'm a hobbyist and have done a fair bit of fabrication, and it's hard for me to not just say Ef it, and build one myself. I don't have the time for that.
@photomike My plan for the diesel heater was redundancy. I think I can possibly use a coolant heater and add a heater core to the unit. Quick disconnects for water to recirculate with the engine heater. It would serve a dual purpose and allow engine heat to warm the unit while on the road. Honestly if my wife isn't with me (She likely won't go as often as me) I can skip a day of showering. I thought about Vans honestly, all in it's way easier but I need the truck for my Car Hobby, and some other things.
@Notsobigjoe Yeah you know my area then. Which way EJ? Anyway... That's a lot of what I was thinking. I've looked at some of the doors and such, and they're not robust enough or sealed totally. I honestly like sleeping in the cold so if the unit is in the 50's at night I'm ok with that, so long as the pipes are kept warm enough. I'm an Engineer and even thought if I could fabricate an air to air heat exchanger I could figure a way out to dry out the air some, we'll see. I need to step back sometimes and not spiral away into details.
In the end, no plan survives contact with the enemy, so it might be I just need to get one and see what works.
Thanks all.
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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^your last sentence says it all.
You’re not going to do “better” than starting off with a 4 season camper. And with that it’ll handle below freezing temps and running water, to a point. Basement model TCs are decent here if they have or you can improve heated air exchange to the “basement”.
Reasonably the furnace will keep the camper warm down to single digit temperatures. But it will chew thru LP and battery power FAST.
Keeping the water on will just be a test. It’s not magic. But more challenging in below freezing temps. But you get what you put into it.
I was able to use our AF camper with no mods for better heat/air circulation in single digits at night 20s and sunny daytime but that was real close to the practical limit I’m sure.
A little diesel heater is a GREAT idea. And something I would do 100% if planning on any sort of regular cold weather use. And they’re relatively inexpensive. Just need to address the logistics and install.
For efficiency this would be your primary heat and the mouse turd toaster would be the redundant portion since it’s much less efficient.
An engine coolant radiator hookup in the camper is a bad idea. Scratch that one off the list. I suppose it’s possible but in no way practical. Same for the suggestion of plumbing from the truck diesel tank for a little add on diesel heater. Another solution that doesn’t solve a problem but only creates complexity and potential for failure points.
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mbloof
Beaverton, OR
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SkiBumAt50 wrote:Thanks all for the comments. I get that I maybe asking a lot of the camper. While it's an expensive task, I'm not ready for a full Earthroamer yet. I'm a hobbyist and have done a fair bit of fabrication, and it's hard for me to not just say Ef it, and build one myself. I don't have the time for that.
@photomike My plan for the diesel heater was redundancy. I think I can possibly use a coolant heater and add a heater core to the unit. Quick disconnects for water to recirculate with the engine heater. It would serve a dual purpose and allow engine heat to warm the unit while on the road. Honestly if my wife isn't with me (She likely won't go as often as me) I can skip a day of showering. I thought about Vans honestly, all in it's way easier but I need the truck for my Car Hobby, and some other things.
@Notsobigjoe Yeah you know my area then. Which way EJ? Anyway... That's a lot of what I was thinking. I've looked at some of the doors and such, and they're not robust enough or sealed totally. I honestly like sleeping in the cold so if the unit is in the 50's at night I'm ok with that, so long as the pipes are kept warm enough. I'm an Engineer and even thought if I could fabricate an air to air heat exchanger I could figure a way out to dry out the air some, we'll see. I need to step back sometimes and not spiral away into details.
In the end, no plan survives contact with the enemy, so it might be I just need to get one and see what works.
Thanks all.
The problems with subfreezing camping are many.
#1 Having enough stored power to run the furnace. While propane catalytic heaters use no power proper ventilation is required for their use. Diesel heaters/furnaces may use less power but require another fuel source. In sub freezing temperatures (and add some wind) and your furnace is going to be running nearly non-stop in attempts to keep your camper warm. Best have a source of power or LOTS of AH to power it. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
#2 Counter productive as it may, good ventilation is required while humans+animals are inside the camper as they give off moisture which will cause condensation on and IN anything in contact with the outside subfreezing temperatures. Add the additional wet clothing+ski gear and there is A LOT of moisture in the camper.
#3 Plumbing/basement - while most modern campers have heat ducts off the propane furnace to keep these heated all bets are off if you make use of alternative heat sources (above mentioned as well as AC electric space heaters) which won't provide heat in those areas.
I've heard of some campers using bottled water and RV antifreeze to "flush" their toilet while avoiding the use of their water system entirely. YMMV.
I'd agree with the other posters that mention the "4 season" moniker is more a marketing buzzword than any actual measure of performance.
Just IMHO, YMMV.
- Mark0.
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