Bionic Man
USA
Senior Member
Joined: 04/03/2009
View Profile
|
FishOnOne wrote:Bionic Man wrote:More gears isn’t all about getting to the top of a hill (that most people will never traverse anyway) faster. It’s the driving experience. I really don’t understand why that is hard for some people to acknowledge.
In addition, aside from the marketing aspect, moving to a better transmission with more gears would allow RAM to run one tranny instead of two, and one engine output level, and be competitive power wise in the 2500 again. Pretty silly for them to hold onto the current strategy.
The problem is I don't think Stelantis has transmission engineers so that means Ram will again have to outsource the transmission and if that transmission is only used in Ram HD trucks it will be extremely expensive.
A version of the Z 8HP works in the Demon. I’m sure with adjustments it could work in the Cummins. Or, heaven forbid, go the route that GM did with the current “Allison”.
And how much inefficiency do they have with two output engines and two separate transmissions for the same truck?
2012 RAM 3500 Laramie Longhorn DRW CC 4x4 Max Tow, Cummins HO, 60 gallon RDS aux fuel tank, Reese 18k Elite hitch
2003 Dodge Ram 3500 QC SB 4x4 Cummins HO NV5600 with Smarty JR, Jacobs EB (sold)
2002 Gulf Stream Sea Hawk 29FRB with Honda EV6010
|
Bionic Man
USA
Senior Member
Joined: 04/03/2009
View Profile
|
Cummins12V98 wrote:" It’s the driving experience. I really don’t understand why that is hard for some people to acknowledge." Please explain.
Two trans and two power outputs have been very successful.
Very successful by what definition?
|
FishOnOne
The Great State of Texas
Senior Member
Joined: 02/12/2011
View Profile
 Offline
|
Bionic Man wrote:FishOnOne wrote:Bionic Man wrote:More gears isn’t all about getting to the top of a hill (that most people will never traverse anyway) faster. It’s the driving experience. I really don’t understand why that is hard for some people to acknowledge.
In addition, aside from the marketing aspect, moving to a better transmission with more gears would allow RAM to run one tranny instead of two, and one engine output level, and be competitive power wise in the 2500 again. Pretty silly for them to hold onto the current strategy.
The problem is I don't think Stelantis has transmission engineers so that means Ram will again have to outsource the transmission and if that transmission is only used in Ram HD trucks it will be extremely expensive.
A version of the Z 8HP works in the Demon. I’m sure with adjustments it could work in the Cummins. Or, heaven forbid, go the route that GM did with the current “Allison”.
And how much inefficiency do they have with two output engines and two separate transmissions for the same truck?
I don't believe that transmission is designed for a PTO provision.
'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs "270k Miles"
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"
|
Bionic Man
USA
Senior Member
Joined: 04/03/2009
View Profile
|
FishOnOne wrote:Bionic Man wrote:FishOnOne wrote:Bionic Man wrote:More gears isn’t all about getting to the top of a hill (that most people will never traverse anyway) faster. It’s the driving experience. I really don’t understand why that is hard for some people to acknowledge.
In addition, aside from the marketing aspect, moving to a better transmission with more gears would allow RAM to run one tranny instead of two, and one engine output level, and be competitive power wise in the 2500 again. Pretty silly for them to hold onto the current strategy.
The problem is I don't think Stelantis has transmission engineers so that means Ram will again have to outsource the transmission and if that transmission is only used in Ram HD trucks it will be extremely expensive.
A version of the Z 8HP works in the Demon. I’m sure with adjustments it could work in the Cummins. Or, heaven forbid, go the route that GM did with the current “Allison”.
And how much inefficiency do they have with two output engines and two separate transmissions for the same truck?
I don't believe that transmission is designed for a PTO provision.
Good point. How would an outsourced transmission be more cost prohibitive than a outsourced engine? Or the current Aisin for that matter?
|
4x4ord
Alberta
Senior Member
Joined: 12/23/2010
View Profile
|
^^^They could put the Z8hp in their pickups and continue to use the Aisin in the chassis cabs. More than likely if they introduce a trans with more gears they will flatten out the torque curve to get the Hp of the Cummins inline with the competition. GM is talking about a 500 hp Duramax and according to how the Ford performs the Powerstroke is already producing over 500 ponies. If Ram is going to offer 500 hp and wants to continue to use 6 gears and an engine with a 36% torque rise the Cummins would need to be tuned to make nearly 1300 foot lbs of torque.
* This post was
edited 07/17/22 06:36am by 4x4ord *
2023 F350 SRW Platinum short box 4x4.
B&W Companion
2008 Citation Platinum XL 34.5
|
|
|
cummins2014
Utah
Senior Member
Joined: 02/20/2008
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
Bionic Man wrote:Cummins12V98 wrote:" It’s the driving experience. I really don’t understand why that is hard for some people to acknowledge." Please explain.
Two trans and two power outputs have been very successful.
Very successful by what definition?
I would like to hear that one , His Asin has been on the shop floor , and countless 68RFE's. How often do you even read about GM or Ford tranny issues in comparison . The Ford has not had transmission issues since the end of the 4R100, that was 2002. 2003 they had the 5R100 I believe ,and have never looked back on transmission issues . Actually the 4R100 was more an insufficient cooling system, that was easily corrected later on with the 6.0 cooler .
Ram could take a lesson from the other two on transmissions .
|
the1adman
Tucson, Az
Full Member
Joined: 02/18/2007
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
I am a hardcore Cummins fan, owned several of every generation since 1993-first gen. I have a 2021 3500 HO Aisin, there is plenty of room for improvement. The Cummins and the exhaust brake are flawless, the transmission not so much.
The Aisin isn't terrible, just not the ultimate transmission so many make it out to be. My 2017 with the 68 RFE wasn't really much worse when towing 15K plus. I don't know if that's saying a lot about the 68 RFE or little about the Aisin.
I am the odd minority that wants a manual transmission, I never had a complaint about any of the manual trucks I owned. I would jump all over a quality manual transmission option, I know those days are past and probably never see that option again in a new diesel pickup.
|
Cummins12V98
on the road
Senior Member
Joined: 06/03/2012
View Profile
Offline
|
"His Asin has been on the shop floor " You know the story and it had NOTHING to do with the AISIN.
This is what people do they say partial truths to make people believe the story is one way but in fact it's another.
NEVER an issue with my 68ref towing 29k combined for 65k. Only issue was taking off on grade with 3.42's. So if it was so bad I should have had an issue. Trans was near spotless when I removed the MagHyteck before trading on current 15 and upgrading to current 24k DRV. I ran the hell out of mine during the leaning process and it always had solid shifts, no flailing etc.
You guys bitching about the AISIN and 68rfe sell the POS you have and buy a GM or Ford for god's same!!!
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"
"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600
2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable
2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD
|
Cummins12V98
on the road
Senior Member
Joined: 06/03/2012
View Profile
Offline
|
the1adman wrote:I am a hardcore Cummins fan, owned several of every generation since 1993-first gen. I have a 2021 3500 HO Aisin, there is plenty of room for improvement. The Cummins and the exhaust brake are flawless, the transmission not so much.
The Aisin isn't terrible, just not the ultimate transmission so many make it out to be. My 2017 with the 68 RFE wasn't really much worse when towing 15K plus. I don't know if that's saying a lot about the 68 RFE or little about the Aisin.
I am the odd minority that wants a manual transmission, I never had a complaint about any of the manual trucks I owned. I would jump all over a quality manual transmission option, I know those days are past and probably never see that option again in a new diesel pickup.
Guess you should sell the POS you just bought and look for a 13 and older 6 speed stick.
|
Cummins12V98
on the road
Senior Member
Joined: 06/03/2012
View Profile
Offline
|
I love my True Medium Duty "outsourced" AISIN/CUMMINS combo. My shifts are solid, no dead pedal and my engine has performed GREAT towing MUCH more weight than any of you are. That's WestCoast towing not flatlander like many do.
Don't like what RAM has to offer go to GM and Ford. BUT there is a reason most RV haulers and HotShotters that OWN their trucks are driving RAM.
|
|
|
