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mbloof
Beaverton, OR
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Joined: 11/27/2014
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Lantley wrote:
There is always friction between road and tire.
One of the reason cars cannot stop on ice is there is no friction between tire and ice.
Sure the brake pads stop the wheel but on ice the wheel does not stop the vehicle.
Eliminate the ice and the vehicle is able to stop.
Forgetting for the moment that it is the friction between pads+rotor that ought to be slowing/stopping rather then the tires themselves here's what I had exception with:
"My dually also has more braking power, it certainly stops my trailer much faster the my SRW trucks. Again this is determined from the drivers seat not from the text book."
I'm simply pointing out that for 1T trucks the SRW and DRW have the same pads and rotors IE: SAME BREAKS.
Any implied or imagined extra stopping "power" is NOT from the breaks.
- Mark0.
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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^Bingo.
Unless you’re intentionally trying to compare a class 4 or 5 truck to a srw 3/4 or 1 ton like someone here did, a page or 2 ago….lol.
But by his logic, a semi truck ought to stop faster than a Lamborghini since it has bigger brakes and so many more tires! Lol.
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned this far in this brain trust of Defenders of the Dually is rotational mass.
First, how much more rotational mass is typically present with a pair of rear duals vs a pair of single wheels. The difference is very noticeable. Example, the heavier 37s with 20x12 rims on the ole brodozer affects braking noticeably compared to the same truck wearing little OE wheels and tires.
And second, the fact that adding 1 lb of rotational mass to a vehicle is roughly equivalent to adding 7lbs of static mass.
The fact remains, the ONLY time a comparable dually is putting more rear braking force into the pavement is once a srw would lose traction, assuming the dually wont.
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AH_AK
AK
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Joined: 02/01/2021
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mbloof wrote:Lantley wrote:
There is always friction between road and tire.
One of the reason cars cannot stop on ice is there is no friction between tire and ice.
Sure the brake pads stop the wheel but on ice the wheel does not stop the vehicle.
Eliminate the ice and the vehicle is able to stop.
Forgetting for the moment that it is the friction between pads+rotor that ought to be slowing/stopping rather then the tires themselves here's what I had exception with:
"My dually also has more braking power, it certainly stops my trailer much faster the my SRW trucks. Again this is determined from the drivers seat not from the text book."
I'm simply pointing out that for 1T trucks the SRW and DRW have the same pads and rotors IE: SAME BREAKS.
Any implied or imagined extra stopping "power" is NOT from the breaks.
- Mark0.
Calipers and master cylinder.
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Photomike
Southern Alberta or where the camper is parked!
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If I bought a truck for a camper I would go with a DRW just to be safe.
Problem that I have is that a DRW would not go down many of the trails / roads that I like to drive on. That was the reason I got rid of my little class C. Was just to wide.
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KKELLER14K
BEAVERTON OREGON
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Whew!, this thread went all over the place, I'm back to check in. Well let me reiterate. This is about tire failure on two types of trucks right? I have had 14 Toyo tires on a DRW over a span of time. Two were recalls, which did not fail. I have had (4) tire tread separations with this particular type of Toyo tire, (3) of which I had to replace at my own cost. I gave it a chance. The marriage is over. I love good tires when they are safe and having four under the load is safer in my opinion... I already said I do not bash brands. Why do you think I had Toyo tires in the first place? It is like saying Ford makes great trucks but look back in time, they made the Pinto. I consider this many fails in my situation a safety issue and me as a consumer have gone elsewhere. I hope that clears up my opinion on tires. Now, what those tires are on is also your choice. If you cannot afford a DRW, that is understandable. I personally have had 4 trucks that have carried a TC, 3 which were SRW. I worked my way up and now have the DRW I currently have. I don't regret it, not one bit and I asked myself what took me so long to make the jump up? I'm pretty sure anyone who has or had a DRW truck wants a BIGGER DRW....LOL! Thanks everyone for the info...always love the education, that is what keeps me coming back!
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AH_AK
AK
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Photomike wrote:If I bought a truck for a camper I would go with a DRW just to be safe.
Problem that I have is that a DRW would not go down many of the trails / roads that I like to drive on. That was the reason I got rid of my little class C. Was just to wide.
This thread has jumped all over, but the original question had to do with safety. Are DRW safer in terms of maintaining stability in a blowout situation? The answer…probably. The thing is that if the probability of a blowout is low (with quality tires) to begin with and then the DRW advantage in terms of avoiding a subsequent loss-of-control accident is relatively small, then do you care enough to upgrade your truck on these grounds? I was simply trying to get a better feel for how often accidents (loss-of-control) result from a blowout on a truck with a camper and to see if there were more SRW accidents than DRW accidents. Right now, not enough data to say. If fact, no firsthand data of an accident and only one secondhand account. The lack of data tells a story.
Maybe all the SRW folks that had accidents died in the resulting rollover, but it is starting to feel like the actual risk associated with a SRW blowout-induced accident is pretty darn low. In my case, probably low enough that I won’t consider the safety advantage in my decision to upgrade to DRW or stay with my built out SRW. There are other, non safety-related aspects that I will still consider though. Of course, to each their own.
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Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
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Joined: 08/23/2005
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mbloof wrote:Lantley wrote:
There is always friction between road and tire.
One of the reason cars cannot stop on ice is there is no friction between tire and ice.
Sure the brake pads stop the wheel but on ice the wheel does not stop the vehicle.
Eliminate the ice and the vehicle is able to stop.
Forgetting for the moment that it is the friction between pads+rotor that ought to be slowing/stopping rather then the tires themselves here's what I had exception with:
"My dually also has more braking power, it certainly stops my trailer much faster the my SRW trucks. Again this is determined from the drivers seat not from the text book."
I'm simply pointing out that for 1T trucks the SRW and DRW have the same pads and rotors IE: SAME BREAKS.
Any implied or imagined extra stopping "power" is NOT from the breaks.
- Mark0.
Your catching on. I never said it was due to the brakes. As you claim the brakes are the same.
It's do to the fact it is a DRW truck that has 2 extra wheels that gives it additional tire surface that contacts the ground!
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JRscooby
Indepmo
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Joined: 06/10/2019
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Lantley wrote:mbloof wrote:Lantley wrote:
There is always friction between road and tire.
One of the reason cars cannot stop on ice is there is no friction between tire and ice.
Sure the brake pads stop the wheel but on ice the wheel does not stop the vehicle.
Eliminate the ice and the vehicle is able to stop.
Forgetting for the moment that it is the friction between pads+rotor that ought to be slowing/stopping rather then the tires themselves here's what I had exception with:
"My dually also has more braking power, it certainly stops my trailer much faster the my SRW trucks. Again this is determined from the drivers seat not from the text book."
I'm simply pointing out that for 1T trucks the SRW and DRW have the same pads and rotors IE: SAME BREAKS.
Any implied or imagined extra stopping "power" is NOT from the breaks.
- Mark0.
Your catching on. I never said it was due to the brakes. As you claim the brakes are the same.
It's do to the fact it is a DRW truck that has 2 extra wheels that gives it additional tire surface that contacts the ground!
I'm not real smart, but think without changing what surface is made of, the way to increase friction was increase area, or increase pressure. If you double the surface area, but the weight doesn't also increase, is there more friction? Next when you double the spinning mass, brakes need to absorb more energy to stop the spin.
As to the blow-out safety, can we agree the safest one is the 1 that does not happen? A issue I have not seen discussed often is something like this; Loaded heavy enough to need duals, and 1 blows out. (Even worse, slow leak) You safely get it stopped. All is good, right? Might even drive someplace to get new tire put on. But from the time the bad tire starts to loose pressure, the good tire is overloaded. (Slow leak, it can be many miles of leaky tire heating the good tire) Now that good tire may not fail today, but the damage is just like a note at the bank, it will come due. So the odds of the 2nd blow-out increase.
Then the tire wear problem; Blow-out 1 of pair that has 75% of life left in it, replace that tire. By the time the new wears down to 95%, that 75% will be gone.
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jimh406
Western MT
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Grit dog wrote:the ONLY time a comparable dually is putting more rear braking force into the pavement is once a srw would lose traction, assuming the dually wont.
Of course, there is no SRW that is comparable to a DRW. You can try to cherry pick some spec to make them seem the same.
If you want to play the rotational mass game, go find the actual numbers. The front tires/wheels of typical F350 DRW that are small 17s are much lighter than the typical F350 SRW running stock 35s and 18s or 20s. I think it's likely that there is little difference in the entire rotational mass, but wouldn't be surprised if the 6 DRW stock tires don't weigh less than SRW.
You have to ignore every person who's driven both SRWs and DRWs with the same TC to believe DRW/SRWs are equivalent with the exception of two less wheels and tires. You can do that, but don't kid a kidder.
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rhagfo
Portland, OR
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AH_AK wrote:mbloof wrote:Lantley wrote:
There is always friction between road and tire.
One of the reason cars cannot stop on ice is there is no friction between tire and ice.
Sure the brake pads stop the wheel but on ice the wheel does not stop the vehicle.
Eliminate the ice and the vehicle is able to stop.
Forgetting for the moment that it is the friction between pads+rotor that ought to be slowing/stopping rather then the tires themselves here's what I had exception with:
"My dually also has more braking power, it certainly stops my trailer much faster the my SRW trucks. Again this is determined from the drivers seat not from the text book."
I'm simply pointing out that for 1T trucks the SRW and DRW have the same pads and rotors IE: SAME BREAKS.
Any implied or imagined extra stopping "power" is NOT from the breaks.
- Mark0.
Calipers and master cylinder.
Well not sure who BROKE your Brakes, but my DRW has Brakes, not Breaks. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
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