philh
Belleville MI
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Joined: 05/11/2015
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Thank your for all the responses.
Broadcast stations are a mix of UHV and VHF, furthest stations I'm trying to receive is about 50 miles. Not that far for the monster antenna. Also had an omni directional uhf antenna that didn't pick up much of anything
Below is the sequence from antenna to living room TV. It was interesting that removing the splitter had zero impact on signal, which shocked me.
Channel Master advantage 100 antenna
75 ohm adapter (changed out once)
short cable (18"?)
preamp (originally channel master switched out for cheap RCA, which actually improved the signal)
100' higher quality RG6 (replaced 100' channel master cable)run in crawl space
amp power supply
Short cable to 3 way splitter (splitter replaced twice, newest one is channel master passive which will pass through preamp power, also had a powered splitter, but it didn't seem to work at all)
12' cable connected to wall outlet
3' cable from wall outlet to TIVO
Kitchen TV, also 12 ft cable from splitter
Bedroom TV 50' cable from splitter to park model drop to wall outlet
3' lead to TV
All TV's react the same way, i.e. They all suffer the same amount of pixelation. I'd love to say the bedroom drop had an issue, especially since my movement in the bedroom affects ALL TV's, but I bypassed the splitter and it didn't improve the signal.
I could connect the bedroom TV to the antenna, bypassing the splitter and the rest of the cables.
I could also undertake making my own cables, which would greatly cut cable lengths.
Friend had an antenna professionally installed, and they put power source at both TV's which didn't make sense to me, but I could put the power source at the living room TIVO.
General consensus is I have a bad cable SOMEWHERE. Given that the 100' cable was changed and no change, thinking it has to be in one of the shorter leads.
Don't really want to go any higher. 25' should be high enough.
Could move the antenna, which would shorten leads considerably, but securing antenna would be more difficult. Right now I'm secured at park model fascia at roof peak and base attached to concrete.
Cell based modem is completely disconnected now, so that wasn't it.
My fear right now, it's between the splitter and living room TV, but when this room was built, the cable was installed and secured in the wall cavity making it a bit more challenging to replace.
One other issue, that I believe is another symptom, in hot sun, signal reception is worse.
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Tom_M
New Hope, MN
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Joined: 04/24/2011
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According to a couple tower locator sites the closest TV transmitters are located Northeast of Belleville about 25 miles away in the Detroit area. Only the FOX affiliate is broadcasting VHF on RF channel 7.
In the US, about 25% of TV stations are now broadcasting on the VHF band, mostly on VHF-Hi (ch 7 to 36). Only a handful are broadcasting on VHF-Lo (ch 2 to 6).
Multipath (ghosting in the analog days) can be a big problem for digital. This can be caused by signals being reflected off buildings, towers, trees or terrain. You need to point your antenna so it's receiving the strongest signal. One of your TVs may have a menu choice that displays signal strength. If not, the Winegard Sensar Pro is a combination signal strength meter and adjustable amplifier that will display signal level.
Here's a couple tower locator sites:
https://otadtv.com/tvtower/index.html
https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps
Winegard Sensar Pro:
https://winegard.com/industry/recreation........gital-antennas/sensar-rv/sensarpro-white
Tom
2005 Born Free 24RB
170ah Renogy LiFePo4 drop-in battery 400 watts solar
Towing 2016 Mini Cooper convertible on tow dolly
Minneapolis, MN
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Gdetrailer
PA
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Joined: 01/05/2007
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philh wrote:Thank your for all the responses.
Broadcast stations are a mix of UHV and VHF, furthest stations I'm trying to receive is about 50 miles. Not that far for the monster antenna. Also had an omni directional uhf antenna that didn't pick up much of anything
Below is the sequence from antenna to living room TV. It was interesting that removing the splitter had zero impact on signal, which shocked me.
Channel Master advantage 100 antenna
75 ohm adapter (changed out once)
short cable (18"?)
preamp (originally channel master switched out for cheap RCA, which actually improved the signal)
100' higher quality RG6 (replaced 100' channel master cable)run in crawl space
amp power supply
Short cable to 3 way splitter (splitter replaced twice, newest one is channel master passive which will pass through preamp power, also had a powered splitter, but it didn't seem to work at all)
12' cable connected to wall outlet
3' cable from wall outlet to TIVO
Kitchen TV, also 12 ft cable from splitter
Bedroom TV 50' cable from splitter to park model drop to wall outlet
3' lead to TV
All TV's react the same way, i.e. They all suffer the same amount of pixelation. I'd love to say the bedroom drop had an issue, especially since my movement in the bedroom affects ALL TV's, but I bypassed the splitter and it didn't improve the signal.
I could connect the bedroom TV to the antenna, bypassing the splitter and the rest of the cables.
One other issue, that I believe is another symptom, in hot sun, signal reception is worse.
Way to long of runs, way too much coax, way too many connections and I suspect you have the 3 way splitter in between the preamp power injector which is the wrong place for the power injector.
The TV tuners may not "like" having 12V-15V DC present on the tuner inputs either..
Even though a splitter may "pass" DC voltage, it does so at a loss of voltage.. Passive splitters are nothing more than 75 Ohm resistors inside and the power injector only inserts 12-15V DC onto the line. Some preamps give the option of adjusting the gain of the preamp at the power injector.. They simply reduce the voltage going to the preamp which lowers the gain.
I recommend you sort of start from scratch.
Remove all of the extra cables, connections and splitter out of the setup.
Run the shortest cable you have directly from the antenna to the power injector and then to ONE TV and see if things are working.
Your power injector MUST be installed before any splitters!
Here is snip of the RCA manual for their preamps..
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/6spD3Tnl.jpg)
Of course, you will still need the 75 ohm to 300 ohm balum plus the short jumper from the balum to the mast mounted preamp.
This may mean for a temporary test taking a small TV outside and connecting it up.
You have to reduce the squirrels nest of wires and connections by process of elimination.
Once you are satisfied the test setup works then add in your 100ft cable from antenna and install power inserter there with ONE TV and see if you get the same results as the outdoor short cable test.
If satisfied with indoor test, proceed to add in the 3 way splitter AFTER the power injector (antenna lead goes to the power injector marked antenna, output lead (marked to TV) of injector goes to input of the splitter and output of splitter ports goes to TVs).
Then report back your results..
I do think you have way too much cable which is not helping things either but you need to start troubleshooting without all of the other unknowns.
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philh
Belleville MI
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Joined: 05/11/2015
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I should be able to take 25' of cable and attach it directly to the bedroom TV through the window. I agree I have too much cable in the system, but things like needing 60' of cable, drove me to 100' premade cable. Taking the splitter out of the system gave me a result I wasn't expecting, no change.
I'll order a roll of RG6 and cables and start making cables as short as needed if reducing every thing to minimum lengths. Probably what I should have done in the beginning, but I'm also coming to the conclusion the wire buried in the wall is a concern. I also had someone tell me they had an issue with a TV that was leaking voltage into the F connector and they had to put a splitter on trap the extraneous voltage.
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wa8yxm
Davison Michigan (East of Flint)
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Joined: 07/04/2006
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Regarding Virtual Channels comment.
I referred to what I call "Carrier Channels"
I will give you an actual station WJBK
Virtual channels 2-1 2-2 (not sure if they have a 3)
Carrier channel 7 (note the lack of a dash) this is the frequency they broadacst on. Want to hear somethign funny Just down the road (About 1-2 miles) is WZYZ.. Virtual channes 7-1 7-2 and so on.. YUP Channel 2 took over thir OLD frequency (WXYZ now uses I think 41 but I'm only sure of the forty part)
So when you talk of "Virtual Channels" and I speak of "Carrier" We are actually lookign at the same thing You are looking at the TV channel display and I'm looking at the corrosponding frequency meter.. I'm more frequency oriented because antennas see frequencies .
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times
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Tom_M
New Hope, MN
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Joined: 04/24/2011
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wa8yxm wrote:Regarding Virtual Channels comment.
I referred to what I call "Carrier Channels"
I will give you an actual station WJBK
Virtual channels 2-1 2-2 (not sure if they have a 3)
Carrier channel 7 (note the lack of a dash) this is the frequency they broadacst on. Want to hear somethign funny Just down the road (About 1-2 miles) is WZYZ.. Virtual channes 7-1 7-2 and so on.. YUP Channel 2 took over thir OLD frequency (WXYZ now uses I think 41 but I'm only sure of the forty part)
So when you talk of "Virtual Channels" and I speak of "Carrier" We are actually lookign at the same thing You are looking at the TV channel display and I'm looking at the corrosponding frequency meter.. I'm more frequency oriented because antennas see frequencies . Can't quite make sense of what you're saying. About the only thing you got right is that WJBK is broadcasting on RF channel 7. WXYZ is now broadcasting on RF channel 25. Since the last FCC channel repack the TV band only goes to channel 36.
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Gdetrailer
PA
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Joined: 01/05/2007
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philh wrote:I should be able to take 25' of cable and attach it directly to the bedroom TV through the window. I agree I have too much cable in the system, but things like needing 60' of cable, drove me to 100' premade cable. Taking the splitter out of the system gave me a result I wasn't expecting, no change.
I'll order a roll of RG6 and cables and start making cables as short as needed if reducing every thing to minimum lengths. Probably what I should have done in the beginning, but I'm also coming to the conclusion the wire buried in the wall is a concern. I also had someone tell me they had an issue with a TV that was leaking voltage into the F connector and they had to put a splitter on trap the extraneous voltage.
Running wire directly to a TV for a test should give you a result, if it doesn't then you will need to look at your connection at the antenna which would be the 300 to 75 ohm balun and the short jumper..
Since removing the splitter did nothing, it is obvious that no signal is making it to the splitter. Time to eliminate every unknown by a direct connection to the antenna.
Even a spare old 50ft roll you have laying around may work fine to run through a window to one TV.
I am very suspicious of the prewired part of your trailer, fair chance when the factory was slapping it together they tossed in a wire staple right through the center of the coax somewhere along the way..
If you get a good signal using the test piece of coax, I would suggest bypassing all prewired runs, instead run new wire drops to all of your TVs locations. You might have to get creative fishing the wire through the walls, you might have to take the coax under the trailer floor or run through interior cabinets.
Make one central location for all TVs new runs to terminate at. Locate that location where you have power for the power injector.
Insert power injector first, then add the splitter.
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Gdetrailer
PA
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Joined: 01/05/2007
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wa8yxm wrote:Regarding Virtual Channels comment.
I referred to what I call "Carrier Channels"
I will give you an actual station WJBK
Virtual channels 2-1 2-2 (not sure if they have a 3)
Carrier channel 7 (note the lack of a dash) this is the frequency they broadacst on. Want to hear somethign funny Just down the road (About 1-2 miles) is WZYZ.. Virtual channes 7-1 7-2 and so on.. YUP Channel 2 took over thir OLD frequency (WXYZ now uses I think 41 but I'm only sure of the forty part)
So when you talk of "Virtual Channels" and I speak of "Carrier" We are actually lookign at the same thing You are looking at the TV channel display and I'm looking at the corrosponding frequency meter.. I'm more frequency oriented because antennas see frequencies .
Not all stations have gone back to their original old analog channel frequency.
Some have chosen to stay with the frequency assignment they were given during the analog to digital changeover or during the repacks. Some have taken the option to swap frequencies with another channel also.
Because of this mish mash, you cannot depend on the readout your TV tuner is giving as the actual channel frequency it is being broadcast on and that is because of the "virtual channels".
To find out what frequency they are really transmitting on you must use an external internet website like THIS
Example, Pittsburgh TV market, KDKA channel 2 (the old analog assignment which which Ch 2 originally was broadcast at 54 Mhz which is VHF Lo band..
With the last repack, KDKA Channel 2 is now broadcasting at 626Mhz which is the old analog UHF Channel 40 broadcast frequency and not on 54Mhz when they were broadcasting in analog.
But, the TV tuner specifically only gives the digital "virtual" channel number assignment of 2-1 or 2.1, it does not give you the real broadcast frequency or even the new channel frequency it is actually being broadcast on. Not exactly how you can think or assume that 2.1 is being broadcast on its old analog frequency of 54Mhz..
Here is sample of what I am talking about..
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/v9lxTcHl.jpg)
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/HfGXno1l.jpg)
To figure out what the old analog equivalent is you need to go HERE
Which lists the current TV bandplan..
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/p75iEKkl.jpg)
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/v9vaczNl.jpg)
I have found better websites in the past to translate so they are out there but takes time to dig through to find good websites.
One cannot just assume that the digital OTA channel number corresponds to the exact channel frequency as it did back in the analog days.
"Virtual" channel translation is the reason that if you leave a TV broadcast market, you must always rescan the tuner.
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Tom_M
New Hope, MN
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Joined: 04/24/2011
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The antenna that the OP is working with is one at his house, thus it is stationary. He has at least one station that is broadcasting on VHF-Hi so a combination VHF/UHF antenna would be the better option.
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Gdetrailer
PA
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Joined: 01/05/2007
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Tom_M wrote:The antenna that the OP is working with is one at his house, thus it is stationary. He has at least one station that is broadcasting on VHF-Hi so a combination VHF/UHF antenna would be the better option.
Correct.
Besides the antenna the OP has installed is a combo VHF/UHF antenna which is why I don't understand why antenna selection process came into the mix here.
Per OPs follow up post..
philh wrote:Thank your for all the responses.
Broadcast stations are a mix of UHV and VHF, furthest stations I'm trying to receive is about 50 miles. Not that far for the monster antenna. Also had an omni directional uhf antenna that didn't pick up much of anything
Below is the sequence from antenna to living room TV. It was interesting that removing the splitter had zero impact on signal, which shocked me.
Channel Master advantage 100 antenna..
Even though OP didn't give exact model, it should look like these..
![[image]](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51adPJP6HzL._AC_SL1000_.jpg)
![[image]](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51691QsgrXL._AC_SL1000_.jpg)
The OPs issue has nothing to do with having the wrong antenna, it actually is a fairly good choice and all of the antenna selection vs frequency stuff is not much more than a bunny trail..
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