mkirsch
Rochester, NY
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If you're seeing "a lot" of them then it must be okay, right? Why not just go ahead and do it?
You really seem bent on talking yourself into moving forward with your plan, so here's my encouragement: Go for it.
Everybody's different and you won't know how you will feel about this until you experience it for yourself. There are some absolute crazies out there that will throw a 4000lb camper into a stock F250, hit the road, and think it handles like a Lamborghini. Then there are some who put a 1600lb popup in a DRW F350 with 19.5's and all the suspension mods, and think it's going to tip over on them doing 25MPH on a dead level road. Then there are all the ones in between.
The reality is it will be more uncomfortable than dangerous unless you do something really stupid.
Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four.
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emcvay
Pasco WA
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mkirsch wrote:If you're seeing "a lot" of them then it must be okay, right? Why not just go ahead and do it?
You really seem bent on talking yourself into moving forward with your plan, so here's my encouragement: Go for it.
Everybody's different and you won't know how you will feel about this until you experience it for yourself. There are some absolute crazies out there that will throw a 4000lb camper into a stock F250, hit the road, and think it handles like a Lamborghini. Then there are some who put a 1600lb popup in a DRW F350 with 19.5's and all the suspension mods, and think it's going to tip over on them doing 25MPH on a dead level road. Then there are all the ones in between.
The reality is it will be more uncomfortable than dangerous unless you do something really stupid.
No, I'm just trying to understand what the deal is.
I started out working on cars, became a mechanic, built my own race cars but eventually left that world (cubic inches don't win races, cubic dollars do). Point being that I learned long ago that a car is a sum of it's parts and what the manufacturer tells you isn't always correct. Legal Beagles often determine what will be said about a product, more than engineers.
For example, an engineer might spec out an axle for 10000lbs with wheels and tires to match and the legal beagles might say "whoa there, not gonna put that on this thing because someone is going to load it right to the max, break and then sue us, mark it down 20% and we'll be good".
Who knows really? What I do know is that sometimes things are just fine and sometimes they are not. I've been told by several people who run SRW's with various mods that their trucks run great with no problems (fast lane changes are flat and fine).
Strictly speaking they are over GVRW but that doesn't actually mean they aren't safe.
After all, the government and businesses all do things to make you spend more money. For example, go to your pantry and check the 'best by' dates on your canned foods. Bet they are all within the next year or so....reality? They will be fine 40 years from now. No way in hell are they going to tell you that though! Most state governments say it's unhealthy to drink raw cows milk, it's even a felony to bring it across state lines. Doesn't matter that man drank it for eons before learning how to pasteurize. Sure some people got sick, but then people get sick from government approved food manufacturers all the time these days.
My point being that stickers are not always absolutes. Am I going to put a 990 on an SRW F350? Yes. Will I find it safe? No idea. I will tell you that if I find it doesn't handle well with that load I'll trade up to a DRW, I've considered it already, but I keep hearing from others with SRW's that they have no issue hauling it on theirs.
2019 F350 Lariat FX4 DRW PS6.7
2019 AF990
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jimh406
Western MT
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emcvay wrote:I've been told by several people who run SRW's with various mods that their trucks run great with no problems (fast lane changes are flat and fine).
If they say they make fast lane changes and their rigs are flat, I'd say they are stretching the truth a bit. Maybe you could ride with one of them to see what they are calling flat.
'10 Ford F-450, 6.4, 4.30, 4x4, 14,500 GVWR, '06 Host Rainer 950 DS, Torklift Talon tiedowns, Glow Steps, and Fastguns. Bilstein 4600s, Firestone Bags, Toyo M655 Gs, Curt front hitch, Energy Suspension bump stops.
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mellow
Salisbury, MD
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There is nothing fast with my rig, 55-60 and I drive very methodically and make passes when no other traffic is around. No way would I make a fast lane change with my setup, nothing "flat" about mine especially with a side wind.
2002 F-350 7.3 Lariat 4x4 DRW ZF6
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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^emcvay, your last post sums it up. Everyone's opinions of what they're comfortable with vary widely and I'd hazard that those that know their way around things mechanical and those that "drive stuff" for a living or for recreation are/may be comfortable pushing the limits of a vehicle further.
Since your a gear head, you obviously should understand what goes into the gvw rating of light trucks and also how those trucks are constructed.
Stability of a dually can't be denied, but for you it may not be "necessary" for someone else it may be.
I'm running what I would expect would handle about the same as a 990 on your long bed F350. Never had issue with it. Maiden voyage with a 4000lb camper included towing a 6klb trailer 2400 miles to Alaska. Slapped some airbags on the back and pumped up the 3950lb rated Toyos to 80psi and hit the road.
Was it like driving a fun house at times? Yes. Did it bother me? No. Even my wife drove it, so it could t be THAT bad.
Since then, I made some lower "stable load" wedges and added a sway bar. I think it handles pretty decent now for what it is. Haven't found a road that I couldn't keep the same speed as the speed warnings going into a curve. Can I rip through a "45mph curve" at 55 or 60 like if the truck was empty? No, I don't think so, but that's what the warnings are there for IMO.
OE tire and wheel loading WILL be exceeded a bit as you know. Figure 4500lbs centered over the axle as a good round number for the load. I believe right or wrong that the OEs put a huge factor of safety in wheel and tire ratings. Why? Because the liability outweighs the reward of saving a couple bucks on wheels.
If your comfortable wringing out a race car on a roundy round track, hauling a camper probably won't scare you...lol.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
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Reddog1
El Dorado, CA
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emcvay wrote:... My point being that stickers are not always absolutes. Am I going to put a 990 on an SRW F350? Yes. Will I find it safe? No idea. I will tell you that if I find it doesn't handle well with that load I'll trade up to a DRW, I've considered it already, but I keep hearing from others with SRW's that they have no issue hauling it on theirs. I am of the belief you are going in the correct direction. All of the stickers I have read say the weights are with the tire and rim size posted on the sticker. I will also add that to my knowledge, only BC Canada is the stickers law. This has been discussed many times.
Whatever the load capacity of the truck, the heavier the load, the more important the tires. A heavy duty anti-sway bar is next. Typically you can add/modify overload springs. I am partial to airbags. I think these things are what will give you a safe rig.
Having been involved in racing, I think it is reasonable to believe your driving skills are better than most. I doubt you will have any problems identifying negative handling issues and correcting them.
For about 10 plus years and over 150,000 miles, I hauled my 4200 lb TC on my 2WD 2500. According to the door sticker, I was about 2,000 over. I had airbags and no overloads. City, mountains and desert, usually flat towing my Samurai. I never felt unsafe.
About a year ago, I bought a '04 4WD 3500. The price was right and I do like its creature comforts. I will have to admit, completely stock it hauled my 4,200 just fine. My weight is about 500 under the decal should anyone care (I don't). It was borderline in need of an anti-sway bar, so I added one.
Wayne
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emcvay
Pasco WA
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![[image]](http://www.dartplayer.net/index.php?xengallery/db_miniruncar21.41/full)
I was more into going around corners REALLY fast ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink") Grew up around racing sportscars though I did drive a 500hp Firebird in an event and did rather well in it.
I've also driven these...![[image]](http://www.dartplayer.net/index.php?xengallery/l-in-puerto-rico-640x424.40/full)
And 5tons with a big heavy box on the back (switch), deuce and a halfs and all sorts of other things.
I know that I'll know if this will work or not when I'm in the seat heading down the road but I like to get as much information ahead of time before getting behind the wheel. Just the way I am
With my old camper and mill I took it pretty easy, not because of the truck really but rather the mill. I was always concerned about treating it right $30k for a sawmill does that to ya But the camper will too. I did drive with the old one faster than I'd likely drive with the new one but the old one was very light and the truck didn't even squat the 2" rake with it! To level it out on flat ground I'd have to lift the front of the truck an inch But again, it was a light rig (the Angler 9D claims 1680lbs dry no options so at most it didn't weight more than 3000lbs I'm certain. Truck barely knew it was there. Wife drove it but didn't like the fact that she couldn't see behind it well so I suspect she'd be the same on the new one but I tend to drive 90% of the time anyway. It's the driver in me.
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emcvay
Pasco WA
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SO I've spent a bunch more time researching my truck specifically and it appears that it may actually have the 9,750lb rear axle though it's also possible it's a Dana 80 which I think is over 10k. I'm still looking to find some better numbers but this seems to be the answer.
I've also learned that virtually EVERY truck manufacturer lists the GAWR rating based on 'the weakest link' which always seems to be the tires themselves. If the tires, stock, are rated at 3500lbs than the axle is listed at 7000lbs
With that being the case (or at least that's what my research tells me) then with my 3650lbs E rated tires (I need to double check them as I think they are actually over 3800 but the print is too small for my eyes), I should be good to 7300lbs on the rear axle. Upgrading to some Toyo's that are 4000+lbs and my next issue is wheels which I believe are rated at 3500lbs also. SO an upgrade to something better to match the tires should be in order.
So, my thought is that if my research pans out and the axle is actually rated at or close to 10,000lbs and I can get the wheels and tires to handle 8000lbs than a camper weighing in at say, 4500lbs fully loaded will put me around 7300lbs on the rear axle and a couple hundred pounds more on the front. The heaviest I've seen anyone quote for the 990 fully loaded is I believe 4785lbs (Truck Camper Magazine) which would put me around 7500-7600lbs on the rear axle assuming a couple hundred pounds rides on the front.
I can't find good info on the rear leafs but they appear to be rated around 7000lbs however I see direct OEM replacements that show as much as 13,600lbs so it's possible to swap them out. Best I can figure so far is that I have a 5400lbs spring pack with a 5th leaf referred to as a 'helper spring' (3/1 pack plus the helper) so I'm guessing the helper ads the extra capacity but I can see the OEM SD spring pack is rated at 8800lbs.
In short, with good E rated tires, 8800lbs spring pack ($189), good wheels and all else being equal I could conceivably be quite fine with a rear axle weight of 7500lbs-7800lbs with the camper loaded up. Add in some stable loads and or air bags and maybe a sway bar and I should be good.
Not to mention I won't actually be over the real axle weight rating of the truck when you check on that rated via the manufacturer when not considering tires and wheels etc.
OK...more research to do.
On a side note I did a BUNCH of looking for a decent camper in the weight range that would not cause me to have to do the above but I just didn't find anything I liked.
So, a DRW may be in the future if the above proves wrong but I'm willing to dot he above first to test it out and see how it feels.
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Bedlam
PNW
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The DRW F350 had the 11k lb Dana 80 rear axle while the SRW's had the 9750 lb Visteon Sterling 10.5" axle. Things recently changed with F350 SRW getting a Dana 275 axle which has the same or better rating as the Visteon and the F350 DRW getting the Dana 300 which is an update of the Dana 80.
Remember that wheels consist of the rim and tire. We have not found the actual limits of the rims used on Ford's other than the printed specifications that align it with the tire rating. If you want to be safe, you should look at rim and tire upgrade.
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emcvay
Pasco WA
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JIMNLIN wrote:Fleet Ford specs show.. Ford specs clicky
18"-20" wheels rated at 3590 lbs..
17" rated at 3195 lbs.
Remembered you posted this. Thanks. So the rear wheels are rated at a combined weight of 7180lbs. Again, I think wheels and tires would be needed to carry the weight safely and then perhaps shocks too. I wonder if putting on just new ones in the rear to start would be reasonable? Never done that on a truck before (race cars, yes.) but see no reason I couldn't -- though I'd probably just do 4 anyway.
One thing that I keep thinking is that $2500 in wheels and tires, $200 in springs, more in shocks....could just get a DRW lol but I really don't want one. Specially with the places I go.
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