willald
NC
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Quote:I will say I 100% believe your seat of the pants evaluation, and here's why; noise sounds and feels fast. Meaning, I think you'll find the V10 isn't as fast as it feels and the diesel isn't as slow as it feels. The excessive noise of the V10 makes it feel fast, the quietness of the diesel makes it feel slow.
Our current MH is actually quick off the line, but you have to pay attention. Diesels are drive-by-wire so there is a slight delay from the time you step on it until it reacts. Once it reacts you're all good.
Good point, and I thought the same thing for a while.
That may be the case with some rigs, but I am one that pays very close attention to acceleration, and I'm here to tell you, my experience is that diesels just do not accelerate the same, they are slower getting up to speed.
Definitely true that once it gets up to speed a diesel is muuuuch better at holding that speed on hills or whatever. No argument there. However, strictly in terms of acceleration and throttle response (which is what the original poster was asking)...Diesels fall flat on their face every time, when you really step on it.
Think of it this way: How many drag racers, where acceleration is most important thing, use diesel?
Quote:Oh yeah, your info on the exhaust brake is a bit flawed too. Yes, some only have an exhaust brake, many have a true Jake Brake. Look up the differences.
The gassers only have a transmission brake. The engine itself isn't controlling it, the transmission is.
Actually, your info there is a little flawed, too.
Gassers use vacuum in the intake to slow things down (and compression in the cylinders to some extent). The engine itself is doing the braking. There is no braking done in the tramsmission. Yes, the transmission when in tow/haul mode will down shift more when going down hill, forcing the engine to turn more RPMs, which means the engine generates more stopping power. Bottom line, though, is its the engine doing the braking, not the transmission.
Quote:Either way, I'm glad you're happy with yours and it's serving you well.
Ditto. My intention is not to 'dog' anyone else's coach, as someone else implied I was. I was just answering the specific question the original poster asked, based on my experience. That's all, its not anything personal. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
Will
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gutfelt
North america
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Quote:Agreed, I'm not 'dogging' any coaches, at least that wasn't my intention. The original poster asked a specific question, if diesel pushers were sluggish, and I answered that specific question - based on my experience, YES.
I agree, that there is a 'butt for every seat', and diesel pushers definitely have their place and have their advantages. But, they are sluggish compared to a gasser. That is what the original poster asked, and I answered. Thats all.
Will
If you take a new 38-39 ft 3-4 slide 320HP ford Class A MH and loaded for travel and I take my 40 FT pusher with a 425HP Isl and loaded for travel and we take off form a dead stand still I bet you will not get to 60MPH any quicker than I do
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Bruce Brown
Northern NY
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willald wrote:
I've also driven (and rode in) several other diesel powered rigs, not just Motorhomes. And my experience has been the same for all of them - Diesels, in general, are slower to accelerate, because of the very nature of how diesel fuel burns slower than gas. No denying that, really.
Will
You need to take a new Super Duty for a drive then get back to me on this. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/awink.gif "awink")
Or just read this Car & Driver Review to see where an 8300# Crew Cab 4x4 did 0-60 in 6.9 seconds. I'd say that was far from sluggish.
They also tested an F250 gasser that only weighed 6532#. It took 6.7 seconds to hit 60 MPH.
The diesel is over 1700# heavier and only 0.2 seconds behind in 0-60 times. Sluggish? Not in my opinion. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
(Plus after having a Super Duty gasser, I'm now on my 3rd Super Duty diesel since. Lets just say "never" is a really long time but thats when I plan on buying another Super Duty gasser)
With that said, my baby truck (F150 Crew Cab) has a 2.7 Ecoboost gasser. Seeing as that is nothing more than a car with a box, the little Ecoboost is simply awesome.
For work, buy a diesel. For light transportation a boosted gasser works well.
There are 24 hours in every day - it all depends on how you choose to use them.
Bruce & Jill Brown
2008 Kountry Star Pusher 3910
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Mr.Mark
Out West and Mid South
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Will,
You are a good poster as I remember from the past, we just don't agree on this.
Safe travels,
MM.
Mr.Mark
2021.5 Pleasure Way Plateau FL Class-B on the Sprinter Chassis
2018 Mini Cooper Hardtop Coupe, 2 dr., 6-speed manual
(SOLD) 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach, 45 ft, 500 hp Volvo
(SOLD) 2008 Monaco Dynasty, 42 ft, 425 hp Cummins
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ArchHoagland
Clovis, CA, USA
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The biggest difference, for me anyway, between a gasser and a diesel is not climbing the mountains but rather descending the mountains.
I have a GM 8.1 gas engine and engine braking is almost non existent. A diesel engine will hold back the RV with very little braking action.
The only time I get diesel envy is going down mountains and stopping to get gas with my 75 gallon gas tank. Diesel guys can go forever almost between fuel stops.
2004 Monaco La Palma 36DBD
Workhorse W22 8.1 Gas Allison 1000, 7.1 mpg
2000 LEXUS RX300 FWD 22MPG 4020 LBS
US Gear Brakes
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tinkerer
Wisconsin
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Back some years ago I had an older Dodge pickup with a 160 hp Cummins diesel and a Chevy with Vortex V8. The Chevy would take off like a scalded cat empty where the old Dodge Cummins was sluggish from a dead stop empty. Put a trailer behind them and there was no comparison where the Chevy really struggled where the Cummins was night and day ahead especially when there were some grades. There is a reason OTR trucks have 6 cylinder diesels. If you want a drag racers the gasser will be ahead. But I suspect most motorhomes are not purchased for purpose of drag racing.
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willald
NC
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Bruce Brown wrote:You need to take a new Super Duty for a drive then get back to me on this........
I have, and I agree, those things unloaded, are quick. My BIL has one (fairly new F250 with the 6.7 diesel), and that thing is cool.
However, we're not talking about unloaded pickup trucks with 400 horsepower and 800+ ft-lbs of torque. Thats not what the original poster asked about. The question was if diesel pusher MOTORHOMES are sluggish. And, that's the question I answered.
If you recall what I said previously, I kinda covered the whole unloaded diesel pickup thing:
Quote:....No, what I drove was not underpowered, it was just, sluggish accelerating, like most diesel are unless they've been modified, or are totally unloaded (pickup trucks not towing).....
Will
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hipower
Western PA
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This has been an interesting discussion and I can only offer my somewhat biased opinion based on many years of heavy vehicle operation as well as many years of RV ownership.
Our current coach is a 2003 Dutch Star with a Cummins ISC 350. It is no race car nor is it quick from a standing start. Does it do what I expect of it? Absolutely, and quite effectively. We have had numerous years where we traveled 10,000 plus miles and regardless of which coach we were driving they all did the job. Currently we are traveling about 2,500 miles per year and from a point of size and investment we could get by with less coach until we park for extended periods of time and the room is more important.
If I had the luxury of designing a coach chassis from scratch based on our use today it would have a 500+ c.i., turbocharged gas engine in a rear mounted configuration. Backed by a 8-10 speed automatic transmission with air ride suspension and air brakes. Obviously such an animal doesn't exist, and the closest thing to what I describe was the recent Workhorse rear engine chassis which had a short life and was overpriced, in my opinion with, very limited numbers of manufacturers offering them in their lineups.
Obviously this diatribe doesn't answer the OP's question, but my take on this whole thing is simple, if acceleration is a major factor in a buying decision maybe motorhomes aren't the best way for someone to travel.
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gutfelt
North america
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hipower wrote:This has been an interesting discussion and I can only offer my somewhat biased opinion based on many years of heavy vehicle operation as well as many years of RV ownership.
Our current coach is a 2003 Dutch Star with a Cummins ISC 350. It is no race car nor is it quick from a standing start. Does it do what I expect of it? Absolutely, and quite effectively. We have had numerous years where we traveled 10,000 plus miles and regardless of which coach we were driving they all did the job. Currently we are traveling about 2,500 miles per year and from a point of size and investment we could get by with less coach until we park for extended periods of time and the room is more important.
If I had the luxury of designing a coach chassis from scratch based on our use today it would have a 500+ c.i., turbocharged gas engine in a rear mounted configuration. Backed by a 8-10 speed automatic transmission with air ride suspension and air brakes. Obviously such an animal doesn't exist, and the closest thing to what I describe was the recent Workhorse rear engine chassis which had a short life and was overpriced, in my opinion with, very limited numbers of manufacturers offering them in their lineups.
Obviously this diatribe doesn't answer the OP's question, but my take on this whole thing is simple, if acceleration is a major factor in a buying decision maybe motorhomes aren't the best way for someone to travel.
BUT a 500++CID turbo diesel will still out perform your gas idea that's the point here based on the identical other ideals
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hipower
Western PA
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gutfelt wrote:hipower wrote:This has been an interesting discussion and I can only offer my somewhat biased opinion based on many years of heavy vehicle operation as well as many years of RV ownership.
Our current coach is a 2003 Dutch Star with a Cummins ISC 350. It is no race car nor is it quick from a standing start. Does it do what I expect of it? Absolutely, and quite effectively. We have had numerous years where we traveled 10,000 plus miles and regardless of which coach we were driving they all did the job. Currently we are traveling about 2,500 miles per year and from a point of size and investment we could get by with less coach until we park for extended periods of time and the room is more important.
If I had the luxury of designing a coach chassis from scratch based on our use today it would have a 500+ c.i., turbocharged gas engine in a rear mounted configuration. Backed by a 8-10 speed automatic transmission with air ride suspension and air brakes. Obviously such an animal doesn't exist, and the closest thing to what I describe was the recent Workhorse rear engine chassis which had a short life and was overpriced, in my opinion with, very limited numbers of manufacturers offering them in their lineups.
Obviously this diatribe doesn't answer the OP's question, but my take on this whole thing is simple, if acceleration is a major factor in a buying decision maybe motorhomes aren't the best way for someone to travel.
BUT a 500++CID turbo diesel will still out perform your gas idea that's the point here based on the identical other ideals
I won't disagree with your thoughts, but believe what I described would fit our current usage of our motorhome at the lowest cost per mile for operation and should be less expensive in the initial purchase price. Both may be flawed opinions, but they are just that, opinions. Regardless, at 70 I don't see any changes from our current coach to anything else in our future.
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