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Turtle n Peeps
California
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Joined: 06/23/2008
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gmcman wrote:I never understood why GM never offered the duramax as a factory option for the suburban...even if it were to be in small numbers, it would have surely sold.
Well, my 8.1 quest is looking gloomy with all the mpg facts. Even though it would be used sparingly...I'm sure we would use it on occasions and the thought of using 80 gallons of fuel to go to the beach is crazy.....lol.
The 8.1 isn't ruled out, but a 2500 Ram 5.9, pre 08 is looking better. I have friends who see 20 MPG easy at 60 MPH, not towing.... regularly.
What does the Ram 2500 need to be outfitted with for a 10K towing capacity?
Because the Allie tranny was the only one to hold up to the torque of the Dmax and the Allie won't fit in the burb. They would have to redesign the whole package and they didn't want to do that for the amount of sales they would have gained.
~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~
"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"
"The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly."- Abraham Lincoln
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burningman
Seattle, WA USA
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I pulled one of those motors out of a wrecked suburban and put it in my GMC crewcab dually, and my best friend has an '04 Chevy 2500 pickup with the 8.1.
It does pull well, but it destroys fuel!
I did do what you mentioned, got a Dodge with the 5.9 Cummins and it's LIGHT YEARS better at towing and mpg.
About the Dodge/Cummins trucks: there's a LOT to read up and learn about them (or any of the other brands) before choosing what model years you want to own.
The earlier 24-valves (1998.5-2002) are a whole lot cheaper to fix. The later 2003+ "Common Rail" Cummins are also excellent but things like injectors are pricey.
All have well known and documented shortcomings that have been figured out and have their solutions, and they all cost money. All can be made to work great. You need to read on Dodge Cummins truck forums thoroughly before going out and blindly choosing one.
I can tell you my almost-20-year-old Dodge, after the right things were done to it, will pull every bit as well as a new one for less than half the price and the 8.1 Chevy - which I also own - is no comparison. But it still cost a whole lot more to get it there than a gas Chevy.
2017 Northern Lite 10-2 EX CD SE
99 Ram 4x4 Dually Cummins
A whole lot more fuel, a whole lot more boost.
4.10 gears, Gear Vendors overdrive, exhaust brake
Built auto, triple disc, billet shafts.
Kelderman Air Ride, Helwig sway bar.
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BenK
SF BayArea
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Joined: 04/18/2002
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No right or wrong...just opinions...
I LOVE big blocks...small blocks are also great...am NOT a diesel person, but know it is great for others...
Or that comparing MPG between them is out of context...one has about 12%-15% more BTU's than the other...so of course one gets more MPG...toss in much higher compression ratio than the other...another of course higher output
Ten the tons of +/- attributes to them all...I call them Personality traits that you either love or hate about them
Again...I'd take a big block any time...heck...even own one...
-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...
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falconbrother
North Carolina
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Joined: 05/17/2004
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Split it down the middle and get a GMC Yukon XL with the 6.0 and the 6L80e transmission.
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mrw8i
Home
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7,000 - 8,000 lbs you are towing? Tahoe is too small, short wheelbase, not enough suspension or brakes. Even if the drive train could haul that weight. You need stability when towing. Don't let the tail wag the dog.
I had a 3/4 ton 2004 8.1 Suburban. Gas guzzler. Oil guzzler. Towed smaller trailer pretty well - about 6,500 lbs. However, getting into high altitude - above 8,000 feet of steep climbing - there were issues. The issue was the transmission, not enough gears when towing up steep, slow, curvy inclines at high elevation.. Even with that kind of power 1st gear was too much, 2nd was not enough - so it was hunting between gears. Most gasoline engines are not forced induction so lose a lot of horsepower as elevation increases. Most modern diesel pickups are turbo charged - thus lose less horsepower as elevation increases.
I now have a 2012 6.7L Ford Super Duty turbo diesel. Loved it, until the turbo charge tube blew off a month ago 250 miles from home, 50 miles from nearest dealer, in the middle of the desert towing my 5th wheel. It's fixed now, and I now carry a spare charge tube (known issue). I'm no longer in love with it, now I like it - hoping it doesn't break down like that again.
Cost of ownership is probably higher with a diesel.
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mrw8i
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Another issue with the 8.1L was piston slap during startup. I also had issues during steep, slow climbs in the heat with it. EFI would pump hot fuel back to the fuel tank after not being used by the engine, flowing through the hot engine compartment and then back to the tank. After about an hour of that - either the fuel pump and/or vapor lock and the engine dies. I got lucky twice and stumbled to the side of the road, opened the hood, cracked a beer and waited 2 hours and continued on.
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mrw8i
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Turtle n Peeps wrote:gmcman wrote:I never understood why GM never offered the duramax as a factory option for the suburban...even if it were to be in small numbers, it would have surely sold.
Well, my 8.1 quest is looking gloomy with all the mpg facts. Even though it would be used sparingly...I'm sure we would use it on occasions and the thought of using 80 gallons of fuel to go to the beach is crazy.....lol.
The 8.1 isn't ruled out, but a 2500 Ram 5.9, pre 08 is looking better. I have friends who see 20 MPG easy at 60 MPH, not towing.... regularly.
What does the Ram 2500 need to be outfitted with for a 10K towing capacity?
Because the Allie tranny was the only one to hold up to the torque of the Dmax and the Allie won't fit in the burb. They would have to redesign the whole package and they didn't want to do that for the amount of sales they would have gained.
GM was working on a smaller turbo diesel/trans combo for the Suburban when the bottom fell out in 2008. That shelved the idea and it never came back. I suspect it will return in the future.
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krobbe
West Michigan
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My 2003 8.1 Burb averages 9 - 9.5mpg towing my 7200# TT at 65mph. With a 36gal tank, I start looking for a station at about 4 hours(1/4 tank) or 250miles. That's more than most people want to travel without a pit stop.
As far as driving in the mountains at higher elevations, yes there is some noticeable loss of horsepower. But it has plenty to spare to begin with, with diesel like torque. You won't find another vehicle with 4x4 other than the Excursion that will hold up the tongue weight of an 8000# trailer and carry 6 to 8 passengers.
I'll not be giving up my Burb anytime soon!
Me'62, DW'67, DS'04, DD'07
'03 Chevy Suburban 2500LT 4WD Vortec8.1L 4L85-E 3.73 CurtClassV
'09 BulletPremier295BHS 33'4" 7200#Loaded 1100#Tongue Equal-i-zerHitch Tires:Kumho857
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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Joined: 05/06/2013
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gmcman wrote:I never understood why GM never offered the duramax as a factory option for the suburban...even if it were to be in small numbers, it would have surely sold.
Well, my 8.1 quest is looking gloomy with all the mpg facts. Even though it would be used sparingly...I'm sure we would use it on occasions and the thought of using 80 gallons of fuel to go to the beach is crazy.....lol.
The 8.1 isn't ruled out, but a 2500 Ram 5.9, pre 08 is looking better. I have friends who see 20 MPG easy at 60 MPH, not towing.... regularly.
What does the Ram 2500 need to be outfitted with for a 10K towing capacity?
^it needs to be outfitted with a stinger in the trailer hitch. That's all. Tow ready out of the box for more than 10klbs.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold
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BenK
SF BayArea
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Joined: 04/18/2002
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Keep looking...they are few, but are out there...look mainly for someone who is into fashion statement and doesn't tow heavy or at all...boulevard cruiser type that wanted a big block
Technology has come a long ways and will continue...more than just the IP for ICE's that has small blocks produce big block levels of power...even pretty good duty cycles at those levels to boot...
But, another component that has made huge MPG strides is the close ratio trannies with DOUBLE OD. That has allowed the ICE's to be tuned to take advantage of closer spaced ratios and that double OD
On my list of things for the day decide to rebuild my K3500 Suburban's 7.4L and 4L80E are a 'built' 7.4L, a 'built' 4L80E (up to 1,000 ft/lb rating, but won't be using it at 1K ft/lbs...so going to have a higher duty cycle) and an GearVendor OD (so it will be similar to newer TV's with double OD). Undecided on lower diff ratios....maybe 4.56 or 4.88 or 5.13 and go with the 0.75 to 0.5 gearvendors
Plus, they have a gear splitter function that will turn the OEM 4 speed into an 8 speed. Key is that mine develops max torque at about 1,800 RPMs and pretty close to that just off idle...so having a double OD will still have my 7.4L in it's sweet range
Here is the 8.1L torque curve, but don't know it will apply to the one you purchase...just a ball park for figuring... More HP & torque than my 7.4L, but very similar shape curves in reference to where it develops torque/hp vs RPM
![[image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/bentoy/EngineTranny%20AUTO/8.gif~original)
My 7.4L occasionally (not often, but often enough to claim it) gets 15.x MPG. Mostly 12.x when empty on the highway. 10 MPG when loaded with people and towing 6-8 MPG depending what am towing and terrain
Does NOT consume engine oil till after 3K or more miles....though it beats up engine oil pretty badly and can tell when it is time to change...when the dash gauge drops in PSI
Here is the link to GearVendors and is what am going to get. About $3K, you are buying used, so it WILL still be less than a new TV
GearVendors: CHEVROLET/GMC Truck-Car-Van 2-Wheel Drive 4-Speed Automatics
GearVendors: CHEVROLET/GMC Truck-Car-Van 4-Wheel Drive 4-Speed Automatics
gmcman wrote:I never understood why GM never offered the duramax as a factory option for the suburban...even if it were to be in small numbers, it would have surely sold.
Well, my 8.1 quest is looking gloomy with all the mpg facts. Even though it would be used sparingly...I'm sure we would use it on occasions and the thought of using 80 gallons of fuel to go to the beach is crazy.....lol.
The 8.1 isn't ruled out, but a 2500 Ram 5.9, pre 08 is looking better. I have friends who see 20 MPG easy at 60 MPH, not towing.... regularly.
What does the Ram 2500 need to be outfitted with for a 10K towing capacity?
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