DiskDoctr
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red31 wrote:DiskDoctr wrote:
2. Discharge rate is listed as "1500 cycles at 80%" A true deep cycle battery has acceptable repeated discharge of 50% without shortening the life of the battery.
None of these Trojans are TRUE now that I know the definition! Sure looks like there is some sort of cycle life at any DoD
![[image]](http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y490/buokis/battery/batt_zps569e3991.jpg)
Let me clarify my statement (which someone will likely state better).
A true deep cycle battery will not be harmed or have its life significantly decreased due to regular 50% discharging. I suppose it is okay for them to have LONGER life if they are discharged to a lesser degree, though I do not know at what levels they should be?
Maybe someone else can comment on your chart and what implication, if any, it has in this context?
Nice chart, thanks for posting it ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
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MEXICOWANDERER
las peñas, michoacan, mexico
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This thread serves to remind me why so many OEMs demand their products be "push button no think"
IF IF IF IF IF
Absorbed glass mat batteries were sooooooooooooooooo temperature sensitive, they would not exist. The manufacturers would have gone out of business decades ago.
And yet MOST AGM batteries spend their life underhood in bake oven conditions subjected to pure S&M charge regimens dictated by alternator voltage regulators.
AGMs are FLAGSHIP PRODUCTS. Pure Ego on parade. They demand the very finest lifespan and performance figures they can achieve. So manufacturers put forth maintenance declarations that are stricter than the morals of an 80 year old spinster.
Can you blame them?
For a decent COMPARISON between batteries in order to glimpse perspective of weight, amp hours and CCA refer to the following PDF download manual from Lifeline. Compare with your choice.
Lifeline does not try and represent their AGM a being anything other than a true profoundly cyclable AGM
http://lifelinebatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/manual.pdf
The DEKA is a good battery. Buy it. Install it. Do the best you RATIONALLY can with voltage temperature. Then enjoy the battery.
Sufficient recharging amperage is 100 times as important than tweaking two tenths of an absorb or float volt.
Or is this maelstrom of confusion/perplexity/ambiguity going to continue on?
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SoundGuy
S Ontario
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MEXICOWANDERER wrote:Absorbed glass mat batteries were sooooooooooooooooo temperature sensitive, they would not exist. The manufacturers would have gone out of business decades ago.
East Penn AGM Temperature Adjusted Charging Voltages
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/qkEHC3Zl.png)
Interesting - at least a volt difference in temps many of us would expect to camp in. But hey, what would East Penn know? ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/awink.gif "awink")
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CA Traveler
The Western States
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SoundGuy wrote:Interesting - at least a volt difference in temps many of us would expect to camp in. But hey, what would East Penn know? Lifeline temp differences are similar but what would Concorde know? ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/huh.gif "huh")
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Bob
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MEXICOWANDERER
las peñas, michoacan, mexico
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They want absolute perfection. For a flagship product that they have flopped the company cajones on, it isn't surprising, now is it?
Many of these products rest in UPS duty. Years and decades. When battery company X's AGM battery lasts 12 years instead of 13 years battery Y's AGM because Battery X goofed and recommended two tenths of a volt excess float potential...
Management goes berserk.
This gets transcribed where Joe Average and his RV encounters this information. It is inevitably regarded as an Eleventh Commandment. Sacred and inviolate.
To hell with common sense. All those vehicles running around cooking underhood AGM batteries SUCCESSFULLY do not count. They can't. It isn't presented in a shiny format that has an imprint of the company logo. Ignore it. It cannot exist.
I take it all back. Plug N Play. Press button and resume comatose regimentation. Because the alternative would be to create customers who who who (gulp)
Analyze...
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MrWizard
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Yes Mex
But there area many on here that have the battery on charge in storage, only go to hookup sites, have solar that charges for weeks or months before they go out glamping
Not everyone who reads and responds to these threads is a dry camper
Or like you and me a tech who full times
For the hookup resort users, or the week end only
The mfg recommended way, seems to them the best route
They will try to get that ten or twelve years of mainly stand by duty
Me I work them hard
As stated many times very one use is different
Besides that battery under hood is not asked to go down to 50 percent day after day,
Nor do many of them last ten years, that heat and the awful voltage regulation you mentioned does take its toll on the the battery
Most of us who need and USE our battery power understand
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !
....
Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s
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DiskDoctr
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Speaking of heat and ventilation....
Who has a battery box for 4 GC-2 batteries, inverter, and deck mounted converter/charger?
Pics?
Want to save the storage space proper and use/make an addon box for the tongue to handle these things.
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MEXICOWANDERER
las peñas, michoacan, mexico
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It all depends on the ambient temperature with regards to storage. I have not researched the small flooded maintenance chargers to see how they curve out versus converters.
A good AGM underhood will endure 10-12 years unless it is in Frostbite Falls or Phoenix AZ.
To choose an AGM for power princess pole duty is rather poor to begin with. Fine China for a Power Lunch. Forgot how many but I have recommended the cheapest warehouse engine starting battery for many users. 1% antimony, less electrolysis, less quiescent loss and well able to endure rest area duty once or twice a year. Money well saved.
But to dither over minuscule variations in float voltages is less than worthless. Many have obviated AGM because of seeming float temperature ambiguity. This is just plain nuts.
I'm going to give up on this. Facts have been presented and people are going to be people. I don't get paid to argue these points. But I do have hope that folks who can reason this out can arrive at their own conclusion.
I will say this: Stuff a Lifeline under the hood of a car, and compare lifespan to any flooded battery. Cost per year. That's the only thing that matters. Why is reality (perspective) so hard for some folks?
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pnichols
The Other California
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Mex ... you definitely seem to be a Lifeline fan. I would be too if Lifeline would have been more worthy of having fans by telling me over the phone what you keep saying - essentially - that their 70-80 deg. F float voltages can range from ~13.2 volts to ~13.8 volts without harm. But ... Lifeline would not say that. They kept insisting that prolonged storage floating above 13.4 volts would slowly over time evap away their H20. Perhaps you and Lifeline's spec writers could coordinate a bit?
By the way for the OP ... you have stated that you like the idea that one can merely add more 12V voltage batteries in parallel to increase capacity as needed. This shouldn't be done "too simply". Two or more 12 volt batteries need to be wired together in parallel in a balanced configuration so each battery supplies the same current into loads or so each battery accepts the same current when being charged. Here's an article that helps to explain balanced interconnection methods for batteries in parallel: http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
2005 E450 Itasca 24V Class C
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DiskDoctr
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pnichols wrote:By the way for the OP ... you have stated that you like the idea that one can merely add more 12V voltage batteries in parallel to increase capacity as needed. This shouldn't be done "too simply". Two or more 12 volt batteries need to be wired together in parallel in a balanced configuration so each battery supplies the same current into loads or so each battery accepts the same current when being charged. Here's an article that helps to explain balanced interconnection methods for batteries in parallel: http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
You're right about the balancing. I was reading heavily into that yesterday.
Now that I have learned the GC2's at Sams Club are Deka/East Penn Mfg, I think we're going to go that direction.
Cost wise:
3- 12v @ $120/ea = $360 = 315ah
4- 6v @ $ 85/ea = $340 = 430ah
Wiring and storage box will be more complex, but we'd like to put the Inverter and new PD charger/converter in there, too. It's going to be a real project (!)
Our batteries will be stored in a single row, not a square as some people can do in their storage compartments. Think "truck tool box" style.
The plan is to have the batteries in the middle section, partition it off and vent it, use one of the sides for the inverter, charger/converter, switches, etc and use the other side for tool storage.
Here is a pic of the tongue area
![[image]](http://www.diskdoctor.us/camper/Tongue%20area_sm.jpg)
I can move the Propane storage forward 4.5"-6" and not interfere with the electric jack (well, require moving the regulator if I ever have to use the manual override).
I can move or remove the current battery mount.
I cannot move the WDH linkages and must have unfettered access to them for the pipe/bar I use to set them when hitched.
I've seen toolboxes that are stepped in the front, so that could be an option, but I'm strongly considering making a custom box.
I like the idea of recessing the batteries (and weight) down in side the tongue.
The front edge of the camper is rounded, so as we come up vertically, we eventually lose about 6" of space between the propane bottles and the front edge of the camper.
I'm considering building a reinforced frame inside the box that would support a "shelf" on top to store the generator as some have done.
If we choose to later, the generator storage area could eventually be a generator box to provide for running it in place and connect to the electrical systems and chargers in the box below.
That's the "grand plan" anyways. Not sure how far we'll go with it, but as long as we don't inhibit the possibility for the future.
But for now, some front electrical box and management pics would be more appreciated so we can steal...ahem...consider those ideas. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/cool.gif "cool")
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