transamz9
Lawrenceburg Ky
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4x4ord wrote:ib516 wrote:4x4ord wrote:It looks like they need to run the new 445 HP/ 915 lbft Duramax up against the old 397 HP/765 lbft engine.
click
They mention that run in the video and state it was 1400# less than this current load. This load, the trailer alone was 22800#, and they don't mention people/cargo weight. Environmental conditions can have a slight effect too (wind)?
Look at it this way:
The old Duramax with 397 HP and 765 lbft of torque was able to lift 29650 lbs 2100 ft in 588 seconds. If you do the math: 29650x2100/(588x550) you find it did work requiring 192.5 HP plus whatever it took to overcome air and Roling resistance....Likely another 80 HP or so.
The 2017 Duramax lifted 31750 lbs 2100 ft in 615 seconds. Multiple that out and you find it put 197 HP to the pavement plus the 78 or so HP required to overcome drag and rolling resistance.
I'm not seeing the additional 48 HP and 150 lbft of torque that Chevy is claiming.
Torque management, simply put. If they didn't control these beasts electronically they would destroy their gear boxes in short order. These trucks are being built for the everyday mom and pop to use that have no idea how to use the tools full potential without tearing it up. The manufacture has to build in safeties to protect their product. In the good ole days one could use the advertised numbers to gauge the trucks ability but now the need to have a new stardard adopted showing numbers on the ground.
What most people dont understand is that the two V8's in this test have higher hp ratings that the mighty I6 but they get those numbers through RPM. If you don't have enough torque on the ground to get you to those higher RPM the hp numbers make no difference. I would love to see them do that same test with a Ram with 3.42 gearing. Other than taking a little longer to get up to speed i would bet it would be extremely close on average speed climbing the hill.
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transamz9
Lawrenceburg Ky
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4x4ord wrote:I wonder if the trucks performance is based on the manufacturers advertising budget? Why would the Ford pull a 30,000 lb trailer up the hill a minute faster than the Ram and now with a lighter trailer it can't keep up? Why can't the new Duramax blow the doors off the old one?
It depends more on where the load puts the truck in its power band. There will be places where either truck will shine. Too many variables on the highway when the numbers are this close.
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Bionic Man
USA
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ib516 wrote:Bionic Man wrote:IdaD wrote:I haven't watched the video but were these guys running at wide open throttle or were they holding back to stay within the speed limit? If the latter is the case this is meaningless. If the former is the case this is still meaningless because the fastest one is only 15 seconds quicker than the slowest one. Power isn't really a distinguishing quality with these newer diesel trucks and that's been the case for awhile.
I haven't watched the video yet either, but I am pretty sure that it takes 8 minutes to run up at the 60 MPH speed limit.
None of the trucks can maintain the speed limit with the load. I think they mention that the Ford couldn't exceed 40 or 45 mph. I'd have to watch it again to be sure. In any case, it is a test of the power trains.
I would have been shocked if they could. My 2012 can't maintain the 60 MPH speed limit towing my 13,000 pound 5er.
By the way, it is good to see you more active on here again. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
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travelnutz
West Michigan - On the Lakeshore
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One more attempt to educate some of you.
You supply adequate "force" (measurable torque) (not HP as it doesn't exist) on a wrench to turn the nut on a bolt when tightening it even to have rotated the nut one revolution in 1 hour. Want to turn the nut one revolution in 10 seconds? Simply apply more force (torque) adequate enough to do so. To turn the nut one full revolution in one second? Apply adequate force (torque) to make it happen! Not once was HP used in any of the 3 examples or in reality. Just need adequate "torque force" to accomplish the task! It's torque from the engine that turns the axle shaft the drive wheels are attached to. No hamsters in a squirrel cage and no horses either! How hard is that to understand?
It's always a huge laughing joke in automotive and engine design and engineering development deartments I've heard repeated over and over so many times in the nearly 40 years of my automotive design and engineering life with all of the Big 3. Quote: "HP moves the load and does the work" Their reply is and always has been that "HP is only for feeling good and gearheads but it's the torque that actually turns the wheels to the RPM's and wanted and moves the load to and at the velocity desired, nothing else!" Heard it over and over and so true! Required TORQUE is what accomplished the work/task that's done!
Without the required torque value, you cannot have any RPM's nor any calculated theoretical HP. Straight from the engine design and development engineers over and over but some backyard know it all's think they know better! Alive and well on the forums too!
HP is a theoretical calculated value but not a measurable value as a theoretical value was used to be the base value of the thought of pulling power of a horse. Horses vary greatly in pulling power just like humans do too. Could have use the pulling power of an ant too but would it be a big carpenter ant or a little biting red ant? Science and math are only to be based on measured known reliable values, not guessed at!
Carry on boys!
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travelnutz
West Michigan - On the Lakeshore
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transamz9,
Me dun bees thunking yous gitin it!
Quote from your post:
"If you don't have enough torque on the ground to get you to those higher RPM the hp numbers make no difference."
Maybe you can teach some others?
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glazier
Kentucky
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If that result says anything to me, it tells me these trucks are complete brutes. Pick your flavor, no power king based off that test.
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IdaD
Idaho
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I finally watched the video. You can't fault any of them from a performance standpoint. They have other pros and cons to consider, so as far as I'm concerned you just pick the pros that matter to you and accept the cons you can live with on whichever and you'll be happy. I am admittedly impressed that the Cummins held serve with the two newer diesels.
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4x4ord
Alberta
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travelnutz wrote:One more attempt to educate some of you.
You supply adequate "force" (measurable torque) (not HP as it doesn't exist) on a wrench to turn the nut on a bolt when tightening it even to have rotated the nut one revolution in 1 hour. Want to turn the nut one revolution in 10 seconds? Simply apply more force (torque) adequate enough to do so. To turn the nut one full revolution in one second? Apply adequate force (torque) to make it happen! Not once was HP used in any of the 3 examples or in reality. Just need adequate "torque force" to accomplish the task! It's torque from the engine that turns the axle shaft the drive wheels are attached to. No hamsters in a squirrel cage and no horses either! How hard is that to understand?
It's always a huge laughing joke in automotive and engine design and engineering development deartments I've heard repeated over and over so many times in the nearly 40 years of my automotive design and engineering life with all of the Big 3. Quote: "HP moves the load and does the work" Their reply is and always has been that "HP is only for feeling good and gearheads but it's the torque that actually turns the wheels to the RPM's and wanted and moves the load to and at the velocity desired, nothing else!" Heard it over and over and so true! Required TORQUE is what accomplished the work/task that's done!
Without the required torque value, you cannot have any RPM's nor any calculated theoretical HP. Straight from the engine design and development engineers over and over but some backyard know it all's think they know better! Alive and well on the forums too!
HP is a theoretical calculated value but not a measurable value as a theoretical value was used to be the base value of the thought of pulling power of a horse. Horses vary greatly in pulling power just like humans do too. Could have use the pulling power of an ant too but would it be a big carpenter ant or a little biting red ant? Science and math are only to be based on measured known reliable values, not guessed at!
Carry on boys!
At 30 mph the torque on the rear axle of these trucks going up the hill would be around 1675 lbft on each axle (3350 total). At 60 mph the torque would in the neighborhood of 1750 lbft on each axle. The horsepower being transferred through the rearaxle at 30 mph would be around 204 HP. At 60 mph it would be around 425 HP. Torque at rpm equals power.
* This post was
edited 03/04/17 08:52am by 4x4ord *
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transamz9
Lawrenceburg Ky
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travelnutz wrote:transamz9,
Me dun bees thunking yous gitin it!
Quote from your post:
"If you don't have enough torque on the ground to get you to those higher RPM the hp numbers make no difference."
Maybe you can teach some others?
I've always gotten it.
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stufarmer
Tampa Fla.
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Does this comparison now prove the TFL tests and not a Ford commercial. The race to the top does not describe the quality of an HD Truck, and never has. The performance of a truck is about how well the truck handles the load under extreme conditions.
* This post was
edited 03/04/17 05:18pm by stufarmer *
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