Ski Pro 3
Placerville area
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Joined: 06/15/2012
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Something I've been trained for on heavy equipment, like tractors, is that you NEVER turn the wheel back up a grade if you are starting to turn over. You are supposed to turn down the grade to prevent a roll. So, if that was the case here, a slight off camber with a wind and the driver corrected by turning back up the side slope due to ruts, then the momentum of the tip over is carried forward. However, if the driver had turn WITH the wind, and down the rut, it's likely he could have saved the situation. Of course, being aware that the situation exists would need to be realized. It sounds like he was surprised that the camper was even missing off the truck until his daughter told him it was.
Youtube has videos of tractors rolling on an off camber due to the front wheels turning back up the hill in an attempt to recover. I'd recommend viewing those so that we can all be aware of how to drive out of a tough situation if it happens to anyone here.
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bcbigfoot
Okanagan
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skipro3 wrote:I bought a Lance camper from the dealer last year. The dealer said, and the Lance manual says, to use Happijac system. I, instead, chose to install the Torklift tie down system.
I sure hope ALL camper manufacturers are reading of this situation. If this had happened to me, after following both my dealer, who would have installed the Happijac tie down system, and Lance, who has it in writing to use the Happijac system, I would be suing BOTH Lance and Happijac for the loss of what ever the insurance company wasn't covering.
It's a huge responsibility and liability for both dealers and manufacturers who they are partnering with on things like tie down systems.
By the sounds of things the Lance campers have been designed with the Happijac system in mind and their tie down mounts may very well be stronger when used with the Happijac system. However I know my Bigfoot and several other campers that would not be as Happi with the off angle stress that would be placed on the camper mounts.
2002 Dodge 3500 2wd dually, cummins, 4.10 gears, 10500gvwr, Rancho 9000's shocks
2005 Bigfoot 259.6E, 80watt solar, eu2000 Honda gen., 2x group 31 AGM bats., 7100 btu aircond, electric rear step.
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sleepy
Oak Ridge,Tennessee
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bcbigfoot
the Lance is designed for a 6 point tiedown...
2 of the strut dampers provide the forward attachments
2 of the Happijacs provide the center attachments
2 of the happijacs provides the spring loaded rear attachments on the rear bumper
I'll take 6 point attachments over 4 point attachments any time
sleepy
2003 Lance 1161,/slideout/AGM batteries/255W Solar/propane generator/Sat dish/2 Fantastic Fans/AC/winter pkg
AirFoil, Trimetric, LED lights, Platcat vent heat
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RZAR66
San Diego
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Here is the link showing Lance now endorsing using Torklift or Happijac.
http://www.lancecamper.com/truck-support.php
1995 Ford F-350 DRW 7.5
2014 Lance 1050S
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12V Cummins
PA
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sleepy wrote:bcbigfoot
the Lance is designed for a 6 point tiedown...
2 of the strut dampers provide the forward attachments
2 of the Happijacs provide the center attachments
2 of the happijacs provides the spring loaded rear attachments on the rear bumper
I'll take 6 point attachments over 4 point attachments any time
sleepy
Ill take a lighter, better balanced truck camper with 4 spring loaded turnbuckles and frame mounted tiedowns and outperform any 6 point lance.
Sounds like lance had a pact with happijac and they now realize that torklift is the better way to go with heavier campers. Why does lance recommend air lift? Whats wrong with firestone?
Back to the op. I still think that this is a whole sort of unfortunate events: rough roads, wind, failed tiedown, and the corner of the WC separating.
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mike mck
phoenix
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anutami
Wow as I look at the photos I am trying to picture what kind of a wind gust would push a 4000 lb camper over or thru a bed rail.
Tiedowns or not.
If you were in an off camber situation going up that berm. I could understand the forces required to create that situation.
As to camper tiedowns and construction the question becomes design intent. I do use torklift tiedowns and have no expectation they will hold the camper weight while of camber enough for the camper to roll over the bed. My expectation is it will hold the camper in place from sliding forward or back in the bed.
It appears the wind gust was enough overcome the ability of any tiedown system or rig was so far off camber the weight of the camper overcame the design intent of the tie down area of the camper.
just my 2 cents
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Reddog1
El Dorado, CA
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Joined: 03/09/2004
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mike mck wrote:anutami
Wow as I look at the photos I am trying to picture what kind of a wind gust would push a 4000 lb camper over or thru a bed rail.
Tiedowns or not.
If you were in an off camber situation going up that berm. I could understand the forces required to create that situation.
As to camper tiedowns and construction the question becomes design intent. I do use torklift tiedowns and have no expectation they will hold the camper weight while of camber enough for the camper to roll over the bed. My expectation is it will hold the camper in place from sliding forward or back in the bed.
It appears the wind gust was enough overcome the ability of any tiedown system or rig was so far off camber the weight of the camper overcame the design intent of the tie down area of the camper.
just my 2 cents
From my perspective and experience, you have got it. There comes a point that you and I have to take responsibility. This does does not mean we were purposely negligent.
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jefe 4x4
West Slope, Northern Sierra Nevada
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I know the exact spot where the OP went over. It on the last curve before a long straight away. It's next to the Plaster city narrow gage (3') railway. In years gone by, it's just a slightly undulating sandy desert RR service/BLM road. Me thinks the OP was inordinately unlucky and simply got into the 'perfect storm' as mentioned above.
I use Happi jax and find them well engineered. The fronts are spring loaded at a 40 deg. angle or so and that's to keep the box on the bed (and no slide out the back) up front where most of the weight resides. The plate tied to the bed is vertical so lots of sheer. The rears are tied to the factory bumper, which, on a Dodge is pretty sturdy. i cannot vouch for Ford or GM. It is made to flex the bumper, with no spring utilizing the bumper instead. I've heard that some mfgr's bumpers have a one-way trip with flex: Up.
There is a lot less stress on the rear tie downs.
IMHO, THE most glaring mechanical misjudgement in this scenario is the lack of centering guides on the truck bed. In nasty situations like this, much of the sheer could have been transfered to bottom and side plates of the TC and to the centering guides making it difficult, nigh impossible to slide sideways at all and snap the tie downs. The wind would have to crush the bottom box of the tc or lift it straight up at least 6 inches to launch the thing as shown in the pix. There was obvious shock loading going on at the start of 3 seconds of all hell breaking loose. This is a basic tenant of my XTC spiel: the rougher the road, the looser you run the tie downs. This ONLY works if you have centering guides that act as a keyway. Transfer that sheer.
O.K. , so I still had a probably typical response and said, "Oh No!", over and over again as i read the post. It's easy to pontificate if you were not on site and just looked at a few very descriptive pix. The other thing is: a hardside is luckily (maybe not in this case) quiet and noise resistant to things outside, as are modern pickups. I can see why the OP had no idea what was happening.
I'm glad all were safe.
regards, as always, jefe
'01.5 Dodge 2500 4x4, CTD, Qcab, SB, NV5600, 241HD, 4.10's, Dana 70/TruTrac; Dana 80/ TruTrac, Spintec hub conversion, H.D. susp, 315/75R16's on 7.5" and 10" wide steel wheels, Vulcan big line, Warn M15K winch '98 Lance Lite 165s, 8' 6" X-cab, 200w Solar
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bcbigfoot
Okanagan
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sleepy wrote:12V Cummins wrote:I don't think cab over struts would have done anything in this circumstance. If a camper has a good COG it does not need struts and you do not get "porporsing". If i recall the cog of a 850 is pretty good especially on a long bed.
These are actually oil filled piston dampers (strutts are rigid)
Have you ever driven a truck and Lance Truck Camper with the dampers?
Actually in the transportation engineering, struts are very similar to shocks. By the way strutts are spelled with one t. I guess a engineer would know that, wouldn't he?
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pezvela
San Carlos, Sonora, Mexico
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sleepy wrote:bcbigfoot
the Lance is designed for a 6 point tiedown...
2 of the strut dampers provide the forward attachments
2 of the Happijacs provide the center attachments
2 of the happijacs provides the spring loaded rear attachments on the rear bumper
I'll take 6 point attachments over 4 point attachments any time
sleepy
And yet the struts are an option? Doesnt sound like it belongs in the same category as an anchoring system. It's a ride control option, not a necessary safety device.
Out west here, I've known two people who have used their struts on simple dirt roads and destroyed them.
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