Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Towing: New Andersen WD hitch

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Topic: New Andersen WD hitch

Posted By: JBarca on 01/14/12 08:22pm

BenK wrote:

So in pulling the chain, it pushes the tongue against the ball via
where I say the pawl is. That then creates the same lever arm most all other WD systems look like.

Then the TV pulls and the ball wants to go towards the coupler front
(away from the pawl). Then does the ball bang back and forth inside
the coupler?

Hi Ben,

I hear what you are saying but are you missing that the hitch shank is in the truck and the TT and TV connection is sagging way down with no WD yet applied. When you pull on the chains the bottom of the tow ball shank goes toward the TT and the hitch shank hanging out of the back of the truck starts to pivot in the receiver torque tube. AS teh chain force increases by crank the tension nut the top of the tow ball goes towards the truck.

EDIT: 1-15-12 See page 4. Ben is correct. The point I missed was the TT can roll forward and then the TT is pulled up against the ball coupler latch.

Be back soon

John

* This post was edited 01/15/12 11:59am by JBarca *

John & Cindy

2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10
CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package
21,000 GCWR, 11,000 GVWR
Ford Tow Command
1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam
2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver

2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR
(I wish we were camping!)

Posted By: JBarca on 01/14/12 09:17pm

Ben,

Here see if this helps. Used a little pic editing to help show the point.

Posted edited 1-15-12 to better reflect what is going on at the ball coupler. Incorrect pictures removed. See page 4.

The tapered shank tow ball. No nut, just a through pin on the bottom.
[image]

And the turning radius before the chain plate hits the shank. Looks like it might be 45 degree unless this is an optical illusion.
[image]

OK, now how do you get the top ball sphere pushing back into the latch mechanism when WD is applied?

What am I missing? OK I found what I was missing...LOL see page 4

John

* This post was edited 01/15/12 11:55am by JBarca *

Posted By: JBarca on 01/14/12 09:36pm

reno82 wrote:

I like the idea but there are a few areas I'm concerned about. On the video it is said there is 2000# on each chain. Are the clevis and chains shown strong enough for that much constant pressure, they seem small to me?

Also, how do you know how far to tighten each chain.

Finally how does it work with heavier TW? I run around 1500#, with bars you get the size bar to match your TW, do these come in different sizes?

Hi Reno,

It is hard to tell what size chain they are using. I'm guessing 5/16". If it is 5/16 grade 43 chain then it is 11,700# pounds rated breaking strength. 5,850# proof load. This is the same type of chain that is used for towing safety chains in many cases.

And if grade 43 is not strong enough they can go to grade 70 transport chain which is even stronger.

I can see them over coming the chain strength with the right selection of chain in size and grade.

See here http://www.nacm.info/Downloads/NACM%20_Welded_Specs.pdf

You tighten the nuts behind the urethane springs to adjust for WD like you do now with chain links and head tilt. Once you get both sides equal and the same distance in tightening for your wanted WD, they you need to measure or mark how much thread is exposed and crack back to that location on the next hook up.

Just you have to unscrew the preload when unhitching if the tongue jack at it's highest position will not unload it. So there is a screw on and screw off operation possible in many cases. Higher tongue weights most likely.

They state the hitch is rated to 1,400# tongue weight, 14,000# pull. If you are 1,500# TW then this is not big enough. There is only 1 model out so far. I did not see where they have a low end rating.

Hope this helps

John

Posted By: JBarca on 01/15/12 07:00am

BenK and SoCalDesertRider

You are right! I stand corrected.

The light bulb just turned on. [emoticon]

I missed one important part, the TT rolls forward during hitch up and even the truck rolls back a little too. The tow ball is in constant contact with the back side of the trailer ball coupler latch. There is daylight (clearance) between the tow ball sphere and the inside of the front of the trailer ball coupler when WD is engaged. The tow ball is not touching the front inside of the coupler when tension forms in the chains. The TT rolls forward and the only thing stopping it is the ball coupler latch.

I have to go fix breakfast, be back in a bit to explain more and go back and fix my mix ups. After thinking through this, the issue just became a little worse in my view then the ball coupler latch. Just wanted to get this out here that I missed that one important part of the TT rolling forward.

John

Posted By: whisperide on 01/15/12 07:14am

LAdams wrote:

whisperide wrote:

building a better mousetrap fail

I don't really think it's a fail - if it's at the SEMA show it has to have some credibility... Let's wait for John's answer and maybe Ron Gratz will throw in his 2 cents as well...

Les

Think of it as an alternative mousetrap. Not better than what we already have available, but different.

'06 GMC C2500HD RCLB gasser 4.10:1, 4L80E, custom camshaft
'84 Trans Am 6.2 diesel, 700R-4, custom Class-3 receiver
'69 F350 dually. GM 6.2 diesel, turbo, 700R-4, NP208 all pending.

Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 01/15/12 09:08am

Artemus Gordon wrote:

I like this thread so far! I am the new guy, that said... My short experience from using my Equalzer WDH, it appears to me the brackets might start moving around on the frame. Pushing the brackets around was a problem on my Equalizer hitch, the fix was much more substantially upgraded design. This seems to be a potential problem IM limited experience!

I don't have an Equal-Izer brand hitch, mine is a common round bar Reese/Valley hitch. My chain snap-up brackets are welded to the trailer a-frame. They never move, ever. Perhaps your bracket to frame fastening method needs to be examined? Those self-tapping screws do come loose, or shear off....

01 International 4800 4x4 CrewCab DT466E Allison MD3060
69Bronco 86Samurai 85ATC250R 89CR500
98Ranger 96Tacoma
20' BigTex flatbed
8' truck camper, 14' Aristocrat TT
73 Kona 17' ski boat & Mercury 1150TB
92F350 CrewCab 4x4 351/C6 285 BFG AT 4.56 & LockRite rear

Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 01/15/12 09:09am

JBarca wrote:

BenK and SoCalDesertRider

You are right! I stand corrected.

The light bulb just turned on. [emoticon]

Now you got it. [emoticon]

Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 01/15/12 09:13am

The forces on that latch pawl are ~tremendous~ with this hitch system. I would think a special kind of trailer coupler with a completely different ball latching design would have to be welded to the trailer frame, in order to use this chain tension hitch reliably over time/miles.

That would mean cutting off the trailer's standard coupler and only being able to use the hitch with that particular modified trailer. I don't see where that is a benefit to make me want to not use a common round bar or trunion bar hitch that can work with just about any a-frame trailer by just adding to 2 snap-up brackets to the side of the frame....

This hitch might work better if designed for a pintle & ring hitch, or maybe a kingpin & jaws (like a fifth wheel), rather than a common round ball.

Posted By: BenK on 01/15/12 10:37am

Also, there is tremendous potential for banging the ball inside the coupler

Tension the bushing/nut/chains will pull the bottom of that hitch ball shank towards
the TT. The top or the TT's tongue will move forward to contact the pawl against
the ball.

That then creates the WD leverage to lift the tail of the TV and move weight forward.
IN A STATIC condition.

Once moving, dynamic, the acceleration of the TV will pull the ball forward...reducing the
amount of WD tension, therefore reduce the amount of WD

Slow down and the TT will move forward to increase the WD tension

If you have the brake controller initiate the TT's brake before the TV (leading)
this is just like acceleration where the WD tension is reduced

This goes on and on during any trip. The harder you nail the throttle and/or
nail the trailer brakes, the harder the ball bangs

This will work the coupler and the pawl. What happens over time?

Then the friction material and the taper of the ball shank will also get worked
Since not held in with a nut and the normal approx 500 ft/lbs, how much is there
via that clevis pin? I'd assume next to nothing, as that first video shows it
just drop off when the tension and pin is removed.

The only sway control is the friction material. On a traditional WD with cams
will have both the increase in WD forces and resistance to that side to side
by both the pull and compression of the cam on the bar end.

Another assumption is that there might be a custom couple like SoCal said. But
then that thing must be almost zero tolerance to avoid the above...then it should
be greased...but they said no grease ???

Again...just conjecture till a cross section diagram and/or an exploded
assembly diagram. Also need the tolerances for the ball/coupler union

-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

Posted By: carringb on 01/15/12 10:38am

I agree. I would never trust a system that loads the trailer latch. They were never designed for this. Under normal use, with a downward force on the ball, the safety latch isn't even really used. It only comes into play when the tongue is off-loaded (like speed bumps, or really hard braking from the TV).

Stock trailers don't even use latches because of the rough terrain they travel. Instead, they usually use a side-clamping latch.

[image]

Commercial couplers on full trailers and converter dollies, and even dump trailers, all use pintle hitches for the same reason. hitch weights are very light, and a standard latch would not hold up to high loads present in some conditions. I even used a pintle hitch setup for flat-towing a school bus, for the same reason.

2000 Ford E450 V10 VAN! 450,000+ miles
2014 ORV really big trailer
2015 Ford Focus ST

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