Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Avion truck campers

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Topic: Avion truck campers - Hundreds of photos

Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 07/09/12 09:53pm

ticki2 wrote:

BlackFlagForge wrote:

This was the last idea I had drawn up but still not 100% on the tube/channel yet, but for reference this is 2"x1 1/2"x1/8" rec.tube and using 40' total weighs around 110# not including the two 2x4 stingers for added support.

I'm a fan of doing things beefy so the idea of 1/8" walled tube is not so comforting but the weight here is the issue and I feel that this should only be a bonus to the other weight bearing structures and need not support the full load of the rear end.

I'm not sure about how much shear force will be applied from the frame to floor so I am a bit lost as to how I want to secure the two together, the first thought was from interior floor into the structure below or some L-brackets welded to the frame that I could then screw into the flooring, maybe a combo of the two would work best, thoughts?

I added in the voids and pipes on my 69 where the tank/plumbing/electrical penetrate the floor so this layout is accurate.

That is a much better layout than your first . I think it can be made stronger for the same weight by eliminating all the lateral ties under the tub area except for the very back piece . Then add a third runner in the center running all the way as the other two . If they are attached to the floor , the floor will act as the lateral support . I think you a correct in assuming the steel is only additional support and not full support as the upper structure will still be doing it's job . Keep brainstorming , I think you will eventually come up with a very nice system that will be copied by others .

I agree, that is a much better layout. Much stronger with the pair of longitudinal members running the full length of the camper, uninterrupted. [emoticon]

Here are some square and rectangular structural steel tube weights per foot for you to compare, ASTM A-500 steel.

1-1/2" square x .120" wall = 2.21 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 44.2 lbs
1-1/2" square x .188" wall = 3.14 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 62.8 lbs
1-1/2" square x .250" wall = 3.89 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 77.8 lbs

2" square x .120" wall = 3.02 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 60.4 lbs
2" square x .188" wall = 4.31 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 86.2 lbs
2" square x .250" wall = 5.40 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 108 lbs

2-1/2" square x .120" wall = 3.76 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 75.2 lbs
2-1/2" square x .188" wall = 5.59 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 111.8 lbs

3" square x .120" wall = 4.57 lbs/ft, 20'stick weighs 91.4 lbs

2" x 3" x .120" wall = 3.76 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 75.2 lbs
2" x 3" x .188" wall = 5.59 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 111.8 lbs

If you want to use ornamental steel tube, ASTM A-513 steel, here are some weights.

1" x 2" x .120" wall = 2.21 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 44.2 lbs
1" x 3" x .120" wall = 3.02 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 60.4 lbs

1-1/2" x 2" x .120" wall = 2.73 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 54.6 lbs
1-1/2" x 2-1/2" x .120" wall = 3.05 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 61 lbs
1-1/2" 3" x .120" wall = 3.53 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 70.6 lbs

2" x 3" x .120" wall = 3.76 lbs/ft, 20' stick weighs 75.2 lbs

You really only need to use a good strong tube for the 2 main longitudinal members. The cross members can be much lighter. You could even eliminate all the cross members, except one at the front, one somewhere in the middle, and one at the very rear, spanning the whole rear width of the camper.

I wouldn't really worry about the weight. Use whatever size and thickness of tube you need to do the job properly. If all you need is one 20' stick to make both longitudinal members, the difference between the very lightest tube listed above, and the very heaviest, is only about 65 lbs. That's not much weight, when consider the whole camper weighs 2-3000 lbs, likely. Another 65 lbs is not going to kill it.

As far as cost, if you're paying $1.50/lb, another 65 lbs of steel is only another ~$100.

01 International 4800 4x4 CrewCab DT466E Allison MD3060
69Bronco 86Samurai 85ATC250R 89CR500
98Ranger 96Tacoma
20' BigTex flatbed
8' truck camper, 14' Aristocrat TT
73 Kona 17' ski boat & Mercury 1150TB
92F350 CrewCab 4x4 351/C6 285 BFG AT 4.56 & LockRite rear

Posted By: BlackFlagForge on 07/09/12 10:57pm

I have the bonus of adding a grey water where my stairs used to be, that adds quite a bit of room that most don't have. I would like to use that float valve posted earlier and run the shower directly into the top of the GW tank, with the sink run over the BW Dump and into the tank, then the drain at the end of the tank hooked back into the main dump. I need to update my google sketchup so I can do curved pipe lol this 48x12x6 is a little under 15 gallons, more than enough for what little I use when camping, mostly state parks with shower houses [emoticon]

Posted By: BlackFlagForge on 07/09/12 11:00pm

Heheh thanks SCDR, I use Metal Weight Calc for a quick reference but your right! I can use heavy gauge for the main runs and lighten things up a bit on the tail end that will help a ton! This is why I try to share each thought as it comes never know what another point of view can add.

Posted By: sabconsulting on 07/10/12 12:01am

I haven't checked the Avion forum properly for a couple of weeks - loads of interesting action here.

67Avion - really like your cabinetry - starting to look really good.

BlackFlagForge - That frame design is looking much better now you have widened it and taken it all the way to the back. I like things that are built strongly, so I like the look of this, though I guess you don't need to get too worried about the strength as you are simply strengthening an existing design that Avion came up with that wasn't intended to have all this extra strengthening. re the rear steps - what about aluminum since I see you like working in metal?

Keep up the good work :-)

Steve.

'07 Ford Ranger XLT Supercab diesel + '91 Shadow Cruiser - Sky Cruiser 1
'98 Jeep TJ 4.0
'15 Ford Fiesta ST
'09 Fiat Panda 1.2

Posted By: 69 Avion on 07/10/12 06:20am

BlackFlagForge wrote:

They can have a bit of sway from the tube I did notice when I used mine but mostly that much downward force keeps them in place, just make sure the tripod is at a good alignment to keep it from trying to walk lol

Im sure the pipe extension would arrest my bend, Ill be working on that very soon to be sure.

If you decide to use the pipe extension method and you are still concerned about the strength, take a piece of 1" x 1/4" x (approx 8" + long) piece of strap and weld it to the bottom of your new pipe from the outside end in. The 1" wide part of the strap would be centered and vertical on the bottom of the pipe. This will keep it from bending on the outside, past the existing mounting plate. Mine didn't need that, but if it showed signs of bending, that is what I would do.
The way your current setup is, it still acts like a 3 jack system, but with 4 jacks. The PO evidently wanted it to swivel like it did originally, but the vertical strength of the jack was never the problem. The mount was the problem.

Ford F-350 4x4 Diesel
1988 Avion Triple Axle Trailer
1969 Avion C-11 Camper

Posted By: ticki2 on 07/10/12 09:46am

BlackFlagForge wrote:

By eliminating the cut out for the step you will gain a lot more space for the grey tank than I had . I managed a 10 gal tank with keeping the step cutout . One thing you might consider is putting the grey tank more inboard to keep the weight closer to the rear axle , even if that means using some 45's to run the 3" main around the tank on the outside . Also , Fernco rubber fittings are your friend in these tight quarters .

On the subject of reinforcing the overhang . I am not suggesting to not do it , it's a good addition , especially since you patched the floor reducing it's integrity . Just for a practical reference as to how much reinforcing is needed since it's a bit of a guess , I did not add any additional reinforcing for the 10 gal grey tank and have seen no signs of flexing , sag , or any other problems . That said my floor was and is in good solid condition ( one of the lucky ones ), the step is original and still very solid . Hope this helps .

* This post was edited 07/10/12 10:04am by ticki2 *

'68 Avion C-11
'02 GMC DRW D/A flatbed

Posted By: BlackFlagForge on 07/10/12 10:10am

I had thought about adding it somewhere inside because of weight but I got to thinking and I never do any traveling with my tanks in use, only down to dump station in a campground. Even my potable water tanks I fill just before I use them, also the wife and I hope to have a little one on the way some time next year so I dont think we plan on being too adventurous for a while maybe down to St.George island state park in Fl again that place is great, but again the nearest dump station tends to be about a quarter mile at most away from where we camp.

Posted By: 69 Avion on 07/10/12 01:59pm

For those who have recently purchased an Avion camper, there is a problem with the dinette setup when making it into a bed. I remember, as a teenager a few decades ago, when I fell to the floor while sleeping. The table is used as part of the bed and it is supported on three sides. The problem is that the table will bow and when in does, the side of the table near the isle (that isn't supported) bows the most forcing the front support forward which allows the table top to fall to the floor starting on the isle side. Two things will stop that from happening. One, you need to keep the table from bowing. Two, the front support, which is the housing for the water tank, needs to be reinforced. I'm doing both during my rebuild since I don't want to see this happen again.

New table reinforcing. It won't bow this time.
[image]

Posted By: BlackFlagForge on 07/10/12 02:29pm

I noticed this also the hard way, stepped on it to climb over something and hit the floor lol.. a friend was tossing out a cheap solid wood kitchen table that I'll cut and use in place of the standard model [emoticon]

Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 07/10/12 09:37pm

I think that's true of most dinette tables in campers. They're just particle board and they do flex and can break too, if enough weight is on them. Nice job on the angle supports under the table. [emoticon]

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