RVRODDER
ENGLAND
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Joined: 08/24/2010
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I used some "snake"or "reptile" aquarium type, infra red heaters to fight off the freezing temperatures affecting my holding tanks,this saves my propane,these heaters are not expensive,about $30 each,for a flat,1/16"thick pad.These can be attached directly with double sided tape to your tanks,very efficient and safe little heaters that put the heat where you need it the most.
Gulfstream Sunvoyager Cummins 5.9BT DP.
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pianotuna
Regina, SK, Canada
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Joined: 12/18/2004
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Hi all,
Recharging with a standard converter at low temperatures may be a problem. I'd be sure to have a Harbor Freight manual charger along "just in case". For example charging voltage at -30 C (-22 F) is a whopping 16.2 volts.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.
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DanoT
Canada
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Joined: 06/26/2010
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I have found that a heat gun is a handy winter tool and I also carry a compact folding hair drier as a back up. I have found that once it gets to colder than 0*F or-18*C that the propane fridge does not work very well. The fix is to block off the lower fridge vent with cardboard or plastic. Never block the upper fridge vent. Don't forget to remove the cardboard once the temp gets a little milder.
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rehoppe
Denver & Nathrop Colo or somewhere else
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Joined: 01/30/2009
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SunTen wrote:Myself along with some friends of ours survived our first winter camping. We dealt with a lot of snow and 15 below weather.
We have a fifth wheel and he has a motor coach. We purchased a heated water hose to hook up to the facilites water which they had wrapped in heat wires. The heated water hose had a sensor to turn itself on and off to keep the water line from freezing.
In my storage compartment I purchased a plug in adapter with a temperature gauage. I plugged a heater in this and set the temperature at 65 degrees. I also placed a wireless temperature gauge in there to monitor the temperature inside the unit. I placed another wireless temperature gauge in the water hookup area to montitor as well.
We had a skirt made to attach to the fith wheel which reduced cold air blowing under the unit. Being on cement we used water filled tubes to hold it in place. Next year I will be using sand bags. They will handle the harsh winds better. Heavier to deal with but worth the trouble.
The holding tanks were dumped once a week. We did not leave the dumping hose hooked up. I would also recommend the shortest hose to dump because it will be easier to deal with in the cold. Just one less place for freezing problems. We also did not use our on board washer and dryer. More opportunity for potential freezing.
We borrowed a 100lb propane tanke to hook up outside. It was easy to monitor the level of fuel and get it filled. If we ran out for any reason we always had our onboard tanks for backup.
Next year we will add some insulation in the cabinets on the outside walls. You could feel cold air when you got into the cabinets. They talk about the great insulation but it just did not seem enough in the cabinets.
Our friends with the motor coach did pretty much the same thing except for a skirt around the coach.
With a little research and attention to detail winter RV'ing is great.
How long did a 100'#er last on average, and how big a 5er? I always wondered what it'd take to keep a good sized rig up and running. Oh, did/does the 5er have single or double pane windows?
Hoppe
2011 Dodge 1500 C'boy Caddy
2000 Jayco C 28' Ford chassis w V-10 E450
Doghouse 36' or so Trophy Classic TT
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crosscheck
Coldstream, BC
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Joined: 12/14/2010
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pianotuna wrote:Hi all,
Recharging with a standard converter at low temperatures may be a problem. I'd be sure to have a Harbor Freight manual charger along "just in case". For example charging voltage at -30 C (-22 F) is a whopping 16.2 volts.
Pianotuna,
Must be coming in to winter with all of the RV questions related to the cold.
When are you moving to LaLa Land(BC)? All of the good people(mother +father)) come from the prairies but its cold, windy and flat.
Scratch anyone in the Okanagan Valley where we have moved to and most are from the prairies. They know.![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
Thanks for the help in the past on our electronics.
Dave
2016 F350 Diesel 4X4 CC SRW SB,
2016 Creekside 23RKS, 490W solar, 2000W Xantrex Freedom 2012 inverter, 4 6V GC-2 (450AH)
2006 F350 CC 4X4 sold
2011 Outfitter 9.5' sold
Some Of Our Fun:http://daveincoldstream.blogspot.ca/
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pianotuna
Regina, SK, Canada
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Hi all,
I found out this summer, much to my horror, that the wheel wells in my class C had no insulation over them what so ever. This amount to about six square feet of metal acting as a heat sink.
The passengers side was no problem to upgrade. I covered the entire area (about seven square feet) with a 3/8 inch closed cell foam pad and then doubled over a sleeping bag to get rid of the problem.
On the driver's side this was not possible. The "designers" had wires, propane supply and fresh water plumbing laying directly onto the metal. No wonder there were "freeze" issues! I was able to "work" a 1/8 inch piece of foam between the various pipes and the metal of the wheel well.
I've done my first "winter testing". With outdoor temperatures at -10 C and the interior of the RV at 8 C, the fan I used to replace the cold air return under the kitchen cabinet kept the temperature at above 4 C.
As I would normally run the inside of the RV at 18 or 20 C, I think I have the fresh water freeze problem licked.
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pianotuna
Regina, SK, Canada
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Hi all,
I've been busy over the last six months making modifications to my Class C to improve heat loss and prevent fresh water line freeze ups.
Last year my "back yard" experiments results suggested about 430 Btu's per 1 degree delta T, or about 126 watts of heating.
Our first cold weather arrived on the weekend and here are the results:
968 watts =~3304 btu's 18 C above ambient, 183.6 btu's per degree and 53.8 watts per degree.
I'm pretty happy!
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freek_zero
Whistler
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Joined: 11/24/2011
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First of all, thanks to everyone who has shared tips here. This is easily be single best winter RVing thread I've found, and I've been googling for a couple days.
Having said that, there is one thing I haven't been able to figure yet: almost all the winter RVing talk is focused on setting up long term in a park. I'm looking to stay mobile, not more than a few days at any given spot, and preferably not in a park. Is this all but impossible? Or doable so long as one stays out of -40 temps and doesn't expect a summer's day inside temp? (I am at 15C or less inside at home anyway, so I'm quite happy with cool interior temps) I'm guessing the biggest issues are going to be heating costs (even with a good insulated setup), and finding a place to get water and dump.
Of course, there is also the question of how well RVs do driving in snow. I'm open to the possibility of a more capable camper in 4x4 pickup setup (much better for heating of course) but have to admit the idea of something with space and amenities to hold off cabin fever for 3 or 4 months is tempting. Saw a killer price on a mid 90s luxury class A with a genset, usable shower and fridge, and even laundry that made for a VERY tempting proposition.
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pianotuna
Regina, SK, Canada
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Joined: 12/18/2004
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Hi all,
Here is the data. I invite conclusions. I've posted the same information in F, after the version in C.
November 19, 2011 12:50 test begins on 28'5" Class C with dual pane windows
Ambient temperature -18 C
RV temperature was -18 C when picked up but rose to -10 C after 10 kilometers of driving, mostly at highway speeds. The area under the kitchen cabinet was -18 C.
I plugged in two oil filled heaters @ 462 watts each and one radiant heater @ 556 watts for a total of 1480 watts, or the equivalent of 5051 BTU's. The oil filled heaters are in the rear corners of the rear bedroom and the door is open. The radiant heater is in the door way facing the driver's compartment.
13:50
Ambient temperature -18 C, RV temperatures, -7.6 C in the shelf over the dinette, -18 C under kitchen cabinet, -3.6 C rear bedroom
14:50
Ambient temperature -17 C, RV temperatures, -5.5 C in the shelf over the dinette, -15.7 under kitchen cabinet, -1.3 C rear bedroom
15:50
Ambient temperature -17.8 C, RV temperatures, -3.7 C in the shelf over the dinette, -14.6 under kitchen cabinet, 0.1 C rear bedroom
16:50
Ambient temperature -17.8 C, RV temperatures, -2.4 C in the shelf over the dinette, -14.2 under kitchen cabinet, 1 C rear bedroom
17:50
Ambient temperature -18 C, RV temperatures, -2.1 C in the shelf over the dinette, -14 under kitchen cabinet, 1.3 C rear bedroom
18:50
Ambient temperature -18.3 C, RV temperatures, -1.8 C in the shelf over the dinette, -13.8 C under kitchen cabinet, 1.5 C rear bedroom
19:50
Ambient temperature -18 C, RV temperatures, -1.5 C in the shelf over the dinette, -13.7 C under kitchen cabinet, 1.5 C rear bedroom
20:50
Ambient temperature -18.1 C, RV temperatures, -1.8 C in the shelf over the dinette, -13.8 C under kitchen cabinet, 1.5 C rear bedroom
The RV has arrived at steady state. The next part of the test involves switching on a dual fan to blow air into that rather frozen kitchen cabinet. This, by a happy circumstance, also causes a some air to flow through the furnace duct work.
21:50
Ambient temperature -18 C, RV temperatures, -2.2 C in the shelf over the dinette, -7.9 C under kitchen cabinet, `1.1 C rear bedroom
22:50
Ambient temperature -18.6 C, RV temperatures, -2.2 C in the shelf over the dinette, -7.2 C under kitchen cabinet, 0.6 C rear bedroom
23:50
Ambient temperature -18.7 C, RV temperatures, -2.9 C in the shelf over the dinette, -7.4 C under kitchen cabinet, 0.2 C rear bedroom
07:50
Ambient temperature -18.3 C, RV temperatures, -5.4 C in the shelf over the dinette, -9.7 C under kitchen cabinet, -1.9 C rear bedroom
08:50
Ambient temperature -17.2 C, RV temperatures, -5.5 C in the shelf over the dinette, -9.7 C under kitchen cabinet, -2.0 C rear bedroom
09:50
Ambient temperature -16 C, RV temperatures, -5.2 C in the shelf over the dinette, -9.2 C under kitchen cabinet, -1.7 C rear bedroom
On to the next part of testing. I've added 1500 watts of fan based heaters raising the total to just under 3000 watts.
10:50
Ambient temperature -15.1 C, RV temperatures, -2.1 C in the shelf over the dinette, -4.1 C under kitchen cabinet, 3.1 C rear bedroom
11:50
Ambient temperature -14.2 C, RV temperatures, 1.8 C in the shelf over the dinette, -1 C under kitchen cabinet, 6.6 C rear bedroom
12:50
Ambient temperature -13 C, RV temperatures, 4.9 C in the shelf over the dinette, 2.1 C under kitchen cabinet, 10.0 C rear bedroom
13:50
Ambient temperature -12 C, RV temperatures, 7.9 C in the shelf over the dinette, 4.9 C under kitchen cabinet, 12.1 C rear bedroom
14:50
Ambient temperature -12 C, RV temperatures, 9.9 C in the shelf over the dinette, 2.8 C under kitchen cabinet (fan cycled to off range between -1.1 and 4.7 C), 14.3 C rear bedroom
15:50
Ambient temperature -12.3 C, RV temperatures, 10.6 C in the shelf over the dinette, 3.8 C under kitchen cabinet (fan cycled to off) 15.1 C rear bedroom
I've adjusted the under kitchen cabinet thermostat upwards, which was one of the "side issues" for doing this testing.
16:50
Ambient temperature -12.8 C, RV temperatures, 11.1 C in the shelf over the dinette, 2.9 C under kitchen cabinet (fan cycled to off), 15.6 C rear bedroom
18:50
Ambient temperature -15.8 C, RV temperatures, 11.3 C in the shelf over the dinette, 4.9 C under kitchen cabinet (fan cycled to off; range between 2.7 and 6.3 C), 15.8 C rear bedroom
I've ended the test and shut down the heaters except for one just to keep a little heat going in the RV.
So far, my thoughts are that without the fan, the kitchen cabinet area essentially never warms up except if the propane furnace, (which happens to "live there") is running. The difference in temperature varies between 10 and 12 degrees C from the temperature at the dinette.
With the fan running that difference is about 1/2 as much or 5 to 6 degrees C.
I am not attempting to keep the kitchen cabinet at the same temperature as the rest of the RV--just trying to keep the water lines from freezing up while not running the propane furnace. Apparently doing so requires about 3000 watts or around 10,000 btu's when there is an ambient temperature of -12 to -15 C.
F Version
November 19, 2011 12:50 test begins on 28'5" Class C with dual pane windows Temperatures converted to F
Ambient temperature -0.4
RV temperature was -0.4 when picked up but rose to 14 after six miles of driving, mostly at highway speeds. The area under the kitchen cabinet was -0.4.
I plugged in two oil filled heaters @ 462 watts each and one radiant heater @ 556 watts for a total of 1480 watts, or the equivalent of 5051 BTU's. The oil filled heaters are in the rear corners of the rear bedroom and the door is open. The radiant heater is in the door way facing the driver's compartment.
13:50
Ambient temperature -0.4, RV temperatures, 18.4 in the shelf over the dinette, -0.4 under kitchen cabinet, 25.5 rear bedroom
14:50
Ambient temperature 1.4, RV temperatures, 22.1 in the shelf over the dinette, 3.7 under kitchen cabinet, 29.6 rear bedroom
15:50
Ambient temperature -0.4, RV temperatures, 25.3 in the shelf over the dinette, 5.7 under kitchen cabinet, 31.8 rear bedroom
16:50
Ambient temperature -0.4, RV temperatures, 27.7 in the shelf over the dinette, 6.4 under kitchen cabinet, 33.8 rear bedroom
17:50
Ambient temperature -0.4, RV temperatures, 28.8 in the shelf over the dinette, 6.8 under kitchen cabinet, 34.3 rear bedroom
18:50
Ambient temperature -0.9, RV temperatures, 28.8, in the shelf over the dinette, 7.2 under kitchen cabinet, 29.3 rear bedroom
19:50
Ambient temperature =0.4, RV temperatures, 29.3 in the shelf over the dinette, 7.3 under kitchen cabinet, 34.7 rear bedroom
20:50
Ambient temperature -0.6, RV temperatures, 28.8 in the shelf over the dinette, 7.2 under kitchen cabinet, 1.5 C rear bedroom
The RV has arrived at steady state. The next part of the test involves switching on a dual fan to blow air into that rather frozen kitchen cabinet. This, by a happy circumstance, also causes a some air to flow through the furnace duct work.
21:50
Ambient temperature -0.4, RV temperatures, 36 in the shelf over the dinette, 17.8 under kitchen cabinet, 34 rear bedroom
22:50
Ambient temperature -1.5, RV temperatures, 36 in the shelf over the dinette, 19 under kitchen cabinet, 33 rear bedroom
23:50
Ambient temperature -1.7, RV temperatures, 26.8 in the shelf over the dinette, 18.7 under kitchen cabinet, 32.4 rear bedroom
07:50
Ambient temperature -0.9, RV temperatures, 22.3 in the shelf over the dinette, 14.5 under kitchen cabinet, 28.6 rear bedroom
08:50
Ambient temperature 1, RV temperatures, 22.1 in the shelf over the dinette, 14.5 under kitchen cabinet, 28.4 rear bedroom
09:50
Ambient temperature 3.2, RV temperatures, 22.6 in the shelf over the dinette, 15.4 under kitchen cabinet, 29 rear bedroom
On to the next part of testing. I've added 1500 watts of fan based heaters raising the total to just under 3000 watts.
10:50
Ambient temperature 4.8, RV temperatures, 28.2 in the shelf over the dinette, 24.6 under kitchen cabinet, 37.6 rear bedroom
11:50
Ambient temperature 6.4, RV temperatures, 35.2 in the shelf over the dinette, 30.2 under kitchen cabinet, 43.9 rear bedroom
12:50
Ambient temperature 8.6, RV temperatures, 40.8 in the shelf over the dinette, 35.8 C under kitchen cabinet, 50 rear bedroom
13:50
Ambient temperature 10.4, RV temperatures, 46.2 in the shelf over the dinette, 40.8 under kitchen cabinet, 54 rear bedroom
14:50
Ambient temperature 10.4, RV temperatures, 50.8 in the shelf over the dinette, 37 under kitchen cabinet (fan cycled to off range between 30 and 40.5), 57.7 C rear bedroom
15:50
Ambient temperature 9.9, RV temperatures, 51 in the shelf over the dinette, 38.8 under kitchen cabinet (fan cycled to off), 59.2 rear bedroom
I've adjusted the under kitchen cabinet thermostat upwards, which was one of the "side issues" for doing this testing.
16:50
Ambient temperature 9, RV temperatures, 52 in the shelf over the dinette, 37.2 under kitchen cabinet (fan cycled to off), 60 rear bedroom
18:50
Ambient temperature 3.5, RV temperatures, 52.3 in the shelf over the dinette, 4.0.8 under kitchen cabinet (fan cycled to off range between 36.9 and 43.4), 60.4 rear bedroom
I've ended the test and shut down the heaters except for one just to keep a little heat going in the RV.
So far, my thoughts are that without the fan, the kitchen cabinet area essentially never warms up except if the propane furnace, (which happens to "live there") is running. The difference in temperature varies between 18 and 21.6 degrees lower than from the temperature at the dinette.
With the fan running that difference is about 1/2 as much or 9 to 11 degrees lower.
I am not attempting to keep the kitchen cabinet at the same temperature as the rest of the RV--just trying to keep the water lines from freezing up while not running the propane furnace. Apparently doing so requires about 3000 watts or around 10,000 btu's when there is an ambient temperature of 10.4 to 5.
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hotrod4x5
Southern Calif
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Joined: 07/19/2003
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I had my entire trailer freeze with water in the lines. When it thawed out, I had no leaks. Those pipes seem to be pretty stretchy.
Rodney Former Owner of: 2005 Laredo 29GS 2002 F250 V-10 Yamaha EF3000iSEB (and NOT a GS Member)
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