SRT
Head of the Lakes, MN
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OK, back to the real topic. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
Our local gasoline prices seem to have "stabilized" at $3.49 or a few cents lower. Diesel prices are still at $3.99. Waiting for the next thing to happen to raise prices. Maybe summer will finally arrive, ya think?
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tomman58
Southeast Michigan
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interesting interactive discussion of the Keystone pipeline and it history and effects. The lies and the real reasons.
http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/04/need-to-know-about-keystone-xl-pipeline/
2015 GMC D/A, CC 4x4/ Z71 ,3.73,IBC SLT+
2018 Jayco 338RETS
2 Trek bikes
Honda EU2000i
It must be time to go, the suns out and I've got a full tank of diesel!
We have a granite fireplace hearth! Love to be a little different.
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SRT
Head of the Lakes, MN
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tomman58 wrote:interesting interactive discussion of the Keystone pipeline and it history and effects. The lies and the real reasons.
http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/04/need-to-know-about-keystone-xl-pipeline/
Keystone Pipeline story
Interesting article. But it has become very politically charged (IMPO). Canada will sell this oil sands product either to us with the pipeline or they will sell it to whoever pays the going price.
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tomman58
Southeast Michigan
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SRT wrote:tomman58 wrote:interesting interactive discussion of the Keystone pipeline and it history and effects. The lies and the real reasons.
http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/04/need-to-know-about-keystone-xl-pipeline/
Keystone Pipeline story
Interesting article. But it has become very politically charged (IMPO). Canada will sell this oil sands product either to us with the pipeline or they will sell it to whoever pays the going price.
SRT we do NOT get any benefit from this pipeline the oil will go elsewhere, period.
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tomman58
Southeast Michigan
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Try this one SRT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORni8uiuslI&feature=youtu.be/?source=socnet_fb_CC_20140509_bo_watch?v=ORni8uiuslI&feature=youtu.be_bo_1&utm_medium=socnet&utm_source=fb&utm_campaign=CC&utm_content=20140509_bo_watch?v=ORni8uiuslI&feature=youtu.be_bo_1
the world evolves
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LindsayRichards
Tavares, FL
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Quote:SRT we do NOT get any benefit from this pipeline the oil will go elsewhere, period.
That oil is being brought here by rail car and refined in the US now.
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Fezziwig
SF bay
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The KXL is very political because it's a matter of policy. That's what politics is about: determining the best policy for the Citizenry to pursue, through their voting and advocating.
KXL will COST the USA a lot of money through immediate and long term losses, but the RETURNS will be very small, if there are any at all. The ROI will be very small, or non existent, or even negative. I'm against KXL because the ROI is so very bad.
Some of the COSTS are:
(1) loss of valuable croplands to oil use. In the longterm croplands are worth far more than oil lands: we will never have less demand for crops, but we will have diminishing demand for petrol (which is even evident in the USA in recent years).
(2) loss of valuable freshwater resources in our acquifers, rivers and lakes. Partly due to direct loss in fracking (which requires about 4 gallons of fresh water for every gallon of tarsands oil produced), and partly due to 'accidental' pollution from burst pipelines and burst 'holding' ponds. In fact, such pollution is not accidental at all: the pipeline operators know that because they even plan for such 'accidents' and set aside either money or insurance according to the private knowledge they have of their (poor) past performance and 'accident' rates.
There are over 200 chemicals added to freshwater used in fracking to deal with: facilitating lubrication, increasing pumping rates thru pipes, viscosity control, fungus control, etc.. When government agencies, reporters, and private citizens ask or demand an accounting of what those chemicals and dosages, they claim 'proprietary' privilege over their "Intellectual Property": that revealing that would give their competitors an economic advantage.
All the additives we know of (through independent chemical assay) are volitale petroleum products and cancer causing. The 'produce' water that comes out of fracking is unuseable and poisonous. Every bit of it, and it cannot be fixed or pureified. Usually it is pumped into an empty well deep underground with the hope that it never is seen again. Hope. No assurance.
That water is gone: lost to humanity. Previously, water was a remarkable illustration of the use of a resource in a closed recycle system, as it flowed between uses for nourishment and transportation, never becoming permanently polluted or destroyed because of the mild nature of the pollution. But KXL and fracking change that and result in a permanent loss of useful water every year.
(3) loss of jobs and job income in the general economy. Losses will be forced on the citizenry as those subsidies to preferred industries shift employment subsidies from new, sunrise industries, to old sunset industries that are already operating past the point of diminishing returns.
The Cornell University report on job increases for KXL show just a few hundred to a couple thousand jobs benefit to KXL (using a conventional transparent method, whereas the KXL estimate uses an estimate of several thousand from a mercenary consultant who uses a secret method that they refuse to disclose, claiming it's 'proprietary'.
None of the oil will benefit the USA because it will be too expensive to refine to gasoline standards. None. All the benefits of KXL will go to China and others.
KXL is a bad deal for the USA.
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LindsayRichards
Tavares, FL
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So you are OK with the unsubsidised ROI of the numerous wind and solar plants we have built?
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LindsayRichards
Tavares, FL
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If 6.3 kilowatts sounds like a lot of energy, it isn't. The average home consumes 27 kilowatts of power each day. Far more than the 6.3 kilowatts that will be produced by the new solar panels adorning the White House. According to TradeWind Energy, "one 50-watt light bulb running for 20 hours will use one kilowatt-hour of electricity (50 watts x 20 hours = 1,000 watt-hours = 1 kWh)."
In other words, the White House installed enough solar panels to power six 50-watt bulbs for 20 hours each day. And if you've ever been inside the White House, or seen it from a distance, you'll notice it's lit up like a klieg light. Excerpted from Boston.com:
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tomman58
Southeast Michigan
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I guess the solar would give me about a 25% cut in my bill on my 2500 sq. foot home .................... Maybe I should give that a go. Oh wait, my car uses about 160 a month heck that sounds like a very "free" car! Hmmmmm gee the choices are many!
Hey maybe I could do some freelance Fracking in the back yard and run my truck for free also.
Holy cats a small powerhouse and I'm making money................
Oh how my head hurts so many choices, LOL
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